Looking for a cheap but reliable tactical style rifle for 3 gun match. Would like it to have a Flat top with rail to accept optics. Any ideas?? The other option is a Keltec SU-16c but I cannot find them anywhere.
Cheap and reliable?? Do you mean less expensive and reliable?
M&P is probably too expensive..
Stay AWAY from Colt..
Bushmaster is iffy on price..
Olympic Arms.. you be the judge ..
I would say DPMS Sportical (No fwd assit) But do you really need that? I've shot over 100K rds in my military career thus far easily and have not utilized but only 1 friggin time and that was a required drill. But im a NAZI at keeping my weapon clean and wet.
You recommend a DPMS over a Colt. Would you mind explaining why?
jwalker, as a competition shooter your goal is fast, accurate shooting against the clock, right? This upper assembly and this free-float handguard net you a great upper for $545. Lower assemblies can be built for $240 or less. Assuming you upgrade the grip (most competitors do) and include shipping and transfer fees, this is a complete rifle minus sights for right about $850. This is basically the lowest price you're going to get a good quality AR-15.
I work in the jet engine biz. There used to be a sign in the design department which read: Good - Fast - Cheap: Pick Two
Cheap and reliable ARs are probably mutually exclusive. What level of reliability is acceptable? 1000 rounds without component failure? 10,000 rounds? Chances are you'll get a few thousand rounds out of an Olympic Arms or DPMS without any major snafus, but if you're looking for tens of thousands of rounds, you'll be better served by a Colt, a S+W, Bravo Company, Lewis Machine + Tool, or Noveske. Nonetheless, plan on replacing springs and piston rings (on the bolt) every 3-5000 rounds.
You might be well-served by looking for lightly-used guns, now that prices have moderated. ARs which are not involved in competition or serious training tend to have just a few hundred rounds through them.
Ideology isn't a very good reason, especially now that Colt's created a dedicated department/wing/company segment specifically for commercial sales of AR-15s. To civilians. An example of one rifle isn't a whole lot to base an opinion on. Was it a full-length rifle or a carbine? Do you remember the rate of twist? How many other people are happy with their Colt "match" rifles? The 1911 example isn't really appropriate, as the guys who make their rifles aren't the same guys who make their handguns.
I can agree with the argument that "Colt is not inexpensive" and is likely more than someone needs to pay to get into 3-gunning. I can agree with someone's aversion to the company if they've been screwed by 'em in the past. Those are really the only arguments against them, though.
The Colt is the only American vendor with access to the official DoD "design package", which specifies not just the dimensions of the gun but also the materials and process specifications, such as MPI on critical parts like the barrel and bolt. Although the AR design has been around for 60 years, the other AR builders can only guess at how to reverse engineer these aspects. Some get it right, but a lot don't.
That said, it does seem true that Colt abandoned the civilian market some years ago. But the military and law-enforcement carbines such as the 6920 are rugged shooters and will keep perking away long ofter the Olys, Panthers and Bushamsters have broken down.
Occasionally you can run across a good deal on the M&P 15 from Smith & Wesson, plus I think they're going to do that promo deal again where you can get five free Magpul PMags (if you live in a state that allows standard capacity magazines).
My Dad has a Colt Sporter M16A2 style AR and its a pretty solid rifle but too big for my liking, I much prefer the M4. Colt makes good ARs too and I shot a Colt 6920 in the past and it didn't shoot any better than my M&P but given the 1/7 barrel twist it can accurately fire the heavier bullet weights but I've only shot 55 grain .223 rounds. If my gun shop had the Colt 6920 for 1,200 dollars instead of 1,600 I would probably have bought that instead. I wouldn't pay more than that for any AR-15.
Search for Delton or DTI, AR15 online. I just built a flat top with quite a few of their parts, just to check quality, and I must say, I am impressed. They build complete rifles for as low as $700. Keep in mind if you want turn key quality, probably better to go with name brand, or build or have someone build one for you.
We need to rally for our full auto rights again. Anyways im saving for a Noveske at which point Im going to give my wife the LE6920 so she can adapt it to her. Shes a better shot than I and I have been trained by the finest US Naval Dirty Water clique. haha
There are some dealers in the Atlanta area selling Olympic arms complete carbines for about 750-900 range.
I ordered a Doublestar Star 15 M4 16" 6 Pos. Stock .223 from Bud's Gun Shop for $669 delivered. It's a full mil-spec AR and the owner reviews I found across the web have been very positive. I will report back it in a few weeks, after I get it in my hands and get a chance run a 100 or more rounds through it. I've shot and handled many "AR" style rifles before, but this is my first purchase.
Placed my order last week for a Spike AR. $799 base price, making it NJ compliant, a second mag and shipping brought it up to about $930.
They said 5 - 7 days for the custom build plus a few days for shipping.
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