M1 Carbine vs AR15?
This is a discussion on M1 Carbine vs AR15? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I love the M1 carbine, and have even hunted deer with it. It is not a pistol round, it is definitely an true intermediate round ...
March 29th, 2010 02:25 AM
I love the M1 carbine, and have even hunted deer with it. It is not a pistol round, it is definitely an true intermediate round between handguns and rifles (110 grain bullet traveling at 2000 fps at the muzzle). The ammo is not as expensive as most people think, as it comes in 50 round boxes for about $18-20 (around $0.40 / round, about the same as 5.56). It is harder to find than 5.56 or 7.62x39. The magazines are about $12-15 each for 15 rounders (used or new).
I would not describe it as an all around rifle. Because of the low velocity and BC, it loses power quickly past 50 yards. I've heard mixed reviews about the AOs, but since the CMP is just about out of carbines, they are quickly becoming the biggest source of M1 Carbines. Oh, and if you get into reloading, it is straight walled cartridge, making it just like reloading pistol cartridges.
An AR in 5.56 can't be legally used to hunt anything larger than a coyote in most parts of the country. An AK can, but isn't as accurate or customizable as an AR. The AK ammo is cheap still, and I would not hesitate to run Wolf steel cased through an AK. But if the feds change the rules on ammo importation, it would get as expensive as anything else.
I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much. Have fun with whatever you decide to buy.
March 29th, 2010 02:59 AM
I might have missed it, but if anyone is ex-military and wants an M1, they should look into the civilian marksmanship program. You can pickup M1s at really good prices. It is not just for ex-military, just a lot easier.
March 29th, 2010 09:22 AM
I like the Garand they have at the CMP. $895 for a 'collector grade' M1. I think it would be a sound investment, fun shooter, and home defense rifle. A coworker of mine got a service grade rifle and had the honor to fire a clip through it. It was a well balanced rifle. Rifled stayed in place for a good follow up shot.
I appreciate EVERYONES insight. You all have been most helpful and really enjoyed your thoughts. You all are right, each has their strengths and weaknesses. Wether it be AK, AR15, or Garand ill be sure to post pictures in this thread.
Beretta PX4 Storm .45 / Springfield Armory XDM 9 / Springfield Armory 1911 Milspec / Smith Wesson 686 / Bushmaster XM-15 E2
DPMS A-15 Oracle / Remington 870 Express Magnum / Remington 597 .22
March 29th, 2010 01:37 PM
I own and shoot M-1 carbine, SKS, AK-47, Garand, M-1A, FN-FAL, FN-49….
I love my little M-1 carbines, great handling, easy to carry, low recoil, good accuracy etc. As I sit here in Iraq there is an M-1 carbine next to the wife’s side of the bed for home defense. Loaded with jungle clipped 30 round mags full of 110 gr hollow points @ 2000fps it should be better than a .357 mag, and nobody ever said a .357 hollowpoint was an inadequate man stopper. Sure the FMJ probably sucks but with a hollowpoint I have killed 2 deer with one, shot at ~40 yards and they went down in ~100 yards, I have had deer hit with 12ga slugs run further.
ARs are great, I have 4 of them, never killed a deer with one but I know people who have (legal in Missouri) not much to say about them that hasn’t been said.
I do not like the Ruger Mini-14 series rifles; I personally have never been impressed with the accuracy of any I have shot.
For range shooting I will take my Garands over just about any rifle I own, there is just something about the way one feels; and plenty of power for anything you need it to do, just a little slower on the reload than some of the others.
AKs are fun, everyone should probably have one, ammo is easy to come by, soft points are easy to find and ballisticlly the 7.62X39 is nearly identical to our 30-30 and there are plenty of accessories for it.
For a low cost, all-round rifle the SKS is hard to beat, the receiver is more robust than the AKs and they are more accurate if you want to hunt with it (plus the spike bayonet makes for ease of finishing off wounded deer). ALMOST as easy handling as a carbine it makes an all round rifle and one I don’t mind having bounce around in my truck when out on the property.
March 29th, 2010 02:36 PM
If you get near Daytona, PM me, we have several Tantal style AK 74s in stock. (well, and a bunch of ARs and Carbines too actually)
The best deal going for M1 carbine defense ammo is Magtech. 50 JSP for what you normally pay for 20 JSP from Remington or Federal. You just have to haunt the usual places to see when it becomes available.
March 29th, 2010 05:31 PM
These are currently my 3 favorite rifle platforms. I have a RRA AR lower with Model1 upper, Norinco MAK-90 (modified), and an Inland carbine from the CMP.
They are quite serviceable rifles, and I think any one could fit your needs.
To address your interest specifically:
The AK will likely give you the most economical experience. If you want to have a dramatic display with something other than paper (watermelons for example) the AK has more power.
Originally Posted by Beretta
The AR will give you the best accuracy and range. With a good position, proper zero, and adequate training, you can get a good group out hundreds of yards. Optic mounting is far simpler that the others.
The M1 carbine will get you fewer funny looks at the range (very small advantage).
For range work, I say AR.
The AK will be quite serviceable, but has a number of disadvantages.
The 7.62x39 will penetrate more than the alternatives. This might be of interest if you are expecting to engage targets behind cover (say a disabled car on your front lawn), but also increases risk of unwanted penetration of walls and furniture.
The AK is also the scariest of guns in the minds of police and the media; if you do defend yourself with it, you'll wish it could transform into a single shot 20ga after.
The AR again has plenty of ways to mount accessories such as lights, lasers, and fast acquisition optics. These can be helpful in low light or close quarters situations. The controls are all accessible with the firing hand; it's a little bit faster to put into operation.
Big advantage is the 5.56/.223 round. Many sources tell that it has very poor performance against drywall. Penetration is not your friend when there might be friendlies on the other side.
The M1 carbine has awkward controls, probably the worst of the 3. The only advantage it might have is a legal one since it's not as scary as the other guys.
AK: Plenty powerful round, plenty reliable (least maintenance of the 3), lighter in most cases than the AR. Unfortunately, with a significant amount of ammo (especially with the steel magazines) it could end up as your heaviest option.
and SHTF/post acopolyptic scenario rifle.
AR: Most commonly available ammo, most commonly available replacement parts. It has the best accuracy at range. It is easy to accessorize. It's also in most commercial configurations heavier than the others. My AR weighs something like 12-13 pounds.
The round does not penetrate as well as the 7.62x39, however that can be corrected with a 7.62 upper (although you eliminate other advantages).
The accessories will eventually run out of batteries; even scopes may break. Iron sights are a must.
M1 Carbine: My personal choice for TEOTWAWKI. It certainly has major disadvantages in the less powerful round, limited range, and lack of customization.
The light weight of the weapon, light weight ammo, and inconspicuous design are what does it for me. If I'm needing to get out of dodge, I'd much rather do it with half the weapon weight. Authorities are much less likely to bother the guy with pappy's old `yote gun than the dude with the tricked out AK with drum magazine. Underpowered rifle is better than no rifle.
March 29th, 2010 05:49 PM
The M1 carbine is my primary HD gun and my wife and my bug-out guns (we have 1 each).
That being said if I could afford it I probably would go with 2 AR's
A real man loves his wife, and places his family as the most important thing in life. Nothing has brought me more peace and content in life than simply being a good husband and father.
March 29th, 2010 05:54 PM
Could someone, anyone, demonstrate a case where a person was convicted of wrongdoing after using a lawfully-owned weapon in a lawful way for self-defense... because of the choice of weapon they used?
I really wish folks would lay that argument to rest.
RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.
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March 29th, 2010 05:56 PM
My plan is AR, M1A, M1 Garand, 1917 (American Enfield), 1903 Springfield, 1898 Krag, Springfield 1861 musket (or replica),1853 Enfield musket (or replica), 1841 musket (or replica), Revolutionary Musket (or replica), so far, I just have the M1A.
Healthy children will not fear life, if their parents have integrity enough not to fear death.
-TIME DEUM ET OPERARE IUSTITIAM--
March 29th, 2010 06:52 PM
To put that set of U. S. military rifles together is an admirable goal. That was my first firearms collecting interest when I was young. I never got into the front stuffers but have the rest on your list. All of those rifles are a worthwhile acquisition to own, shoot, and study.
My dad, uncle, and their buds used to take deer with M1 Carbines when I was a kid. My brother-in-law has taken 4 deer and an aoudad ram with the M1 Carbine. I've never taken a deer with an M1 Carbine but it hasn't been for lack of trying. I've toted one into the deer woods frequently through the years but the deer haven't cooperated. I'm thinking it's an unlucky rifle for me use for deer hunting. I dedicated a deer hunt last winter to the M1 Carbine but that only resulted in busting a large 'coon who was marauding a corn feeder. 'Coons don't hold up too well to handloaded Sierra 110 grain soft points at 40 yards.
March 29th, 2010 07:03 PM
You can get tons of m1 carbine ammo from Georgia arms pretty easy. And several walmarts in my area carry it. Wolf also makes a pretty decent loading for it.
Price isn't as cheap as it used to be, but it isn't bad either. Still cheaper than 5.56.
I wouldn't trust the 30 rounders for the m1 though. They seem to be iffy at best. But, 15 rounder GI mags are still plenty available.
All depends on what you really want. An AR is more customizable, but the m1 is a decent platform that will offer you more power than a pistol carbine, but less than an actual rifle round, and i highly doubt most situations you would use it in, the range limitations would really matter.
Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.
March 29th, 2010 08:24 PM
the m1 is fun, but with a real lack of any SD ammo, the FMJ BLOWS....
get the AR or get both...
March 29th, 2010 10:51 PM
Thanks bmc. You have some good pep talk going! I have a long way to go, but as I have learned over the past few years, firearms collecting is best done slowly. I have been trying too fast and as a result, too many guns I wanted to keep have had to go because of financial reasons. From here on in, I will only get the very best I can reasonably afford, and only get it when I know it isn't going to have to go in a few months.
edit, sorry for the thread jack. My vote is for whichever you can get of highest quality.
Healthy children will not fear life, if their parents have integrity enough not to fear death.
-TIME DEUM ET OPERARE IUSTITIAM--
March 29th, 2010 10:59 PM
I LOVE the M1 carbine. This is possibly my favorite rifle to have fun with. I think the small stature of this firearm would make it ideal for home defense. There are people saying that it doesn't have adequate firepower, but imagine standing on the business end of that thing. I would **** my pants!
March 30th, 2010 04:50 AM
The m1 carbine in my eyes is one of the sexiest guns ever produced. It just feels amazing. its so light and mobile its awesome. I dont think the .30 is "weak" especially with soft nose bullets and such. The same power at 100 yards as a .357 mag at point blank? Good enough for me.
I dislike AR's. They feel like **** to me and im not a fan of .223. Thats why i have an m1a/scout and an m1 carbine. all that said i believe the ar is a better weapon by far, but the m1 is no slouch and between 0-150 yards i dont think there would be much difference in its ability to stop.
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