M1 Carbine vs AR15?

This is a discussion on M1 Carbine vs AR15? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; the best combo for CQB the army has ever had was the 'Lil M1 and the M1911. theres a reason why the Israeli government still ...

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Thread: M1 Carbine vs AR15?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    the best combo for CQB the army has ever had was the 'Lil M1 and the M1911. theres a reason why the Israeli government still uses .30 cal carbine for urban police actions.
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ring View Post
    the m1 is fun, but with a real lack of any SD ammo, the FMJ BLOWS....

    get the AR or get both...
    You are right, all a FMJ 30 Carbine round will do is BLOW a 30 caliber hole all the way through you.

    Any softpoint 30 carbine round will put down a deer, so I think it will handle a human.

    And Corbon makes a DPX round for the 30 Carbine. If that doesn't qualify as a "SD" round, nothing will.

    If you handload, you can get a 90 grain XTP up to 2300 fps.

    Back to the OP, if you are considering a Garand, good for you! They have limitations as well (mounting scopes or red dots, 8 round clips and it is a 30-06, so no HD with it), but are great rifles.

  4. #33
    BAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat35 View Post
    theres a reason why the Israeli government still uses .30 cal carbine for urban police actions.
    Bet it has nothing to do with how many M1 carbines and how much .30 carbine ammo we've given them...


    -B
    RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.


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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    I have most of the Rifles mentioned.... M1A, M1 Carbine, AR15 and both the 47 and 74 AK variants and... to tell you the truth I would pick up the M1 Carbine as quick as any of them. It carries well, it handles well, it shoots good and it is light and quick to point.

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Bet it has nothing to do with how many M1 carbines and how much .30 carbine ammo we've given them...


    -B
    True, but I highly doubt they would still be using any Vulcan firearms if they had those given to them.
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Bet it has nothing to do with how many M1 carbines and how much .30 carbine ammo we've given them...


    -B
    They actually tried to replace the carbines with a home grown design and then went back to the M1 carbine
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

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  8. #37
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    The .30 cal has 1/2 the muzzle energy of a standard .30-30 round.

    I've never been wholly impressed with the round, I feel it's lacking. The hassle of finding it with any regularity, it's high cost considering it's typically surplus ammo, and it's unimpressive ballistic performances would lead me to look for something else as a home defense round.

    As a collectors item, that's fun to shoot occasionally the M1 is great. It's a nice looking gun with a lot of history.

  9. #38
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    As much as I'd like to own an M1 carbine, it would not be on my short list of HD firearms. The major complaint of the .30 carbine during WWII was it's lack of stopping power. My dad carried one and referred to it as his "peashooter." He preferred his Remington .45 auto.
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  10. #39
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Could someone, anyone, demonstrate a case where a person was convicted of wrongdoing after using a lawfully-owned weapon in a lawful way for self-defense... because of the choice of weapon they used?

    I really wish folks would lay that argument to rest.


    -B
    Well, there was that case in AZ where a hiker shot and killed a dog owner who charged at him, after he had been rushed by the man's dogs. The jury convicted him, in part, because he used a 10mm handgun - which the prosecutor noted was "more powerful" than the handguns used by local law enforcement.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Could someone, anyone, demonstrate a case where a person was convicted of wrongdoing after using a lawfully-owned weapon in a lawful way for self-defense... because of the choice of weapon they used?
    Harold Fish. Weapon choice was at a minimum a contributing factor.

    My comments as to the advantage of the M1 carbine were more oriented to the minimization of harassment, detention, and confiscation rather than conviction.
    "and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"

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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Could someone, anyone, demonstrate a case where a person was convicted of wrongdoing after using a lawfully-owned weapon in a lawful way for self-defense... because of the choice of weapon they used?

    I really wish folks would lay that argument to rest.


    -B
    BAC - Mas Ayoob has had a long career discussing, defending, and reporting on the trials and tribulations of people who have been in "justified" shootings, but still had their lives turned upside-down (at the very least.) He's cited NUMEROUS examples where choices made by the good guy - including weapon, ammo, and actions - have exacerbated the situation. I'm not saying that it's RIGHT, but it absolutely can be a factor in determining if you are prosecuted and, if so, if you are convicted.

    I'd think a few minutes with Google would turn up any number of his (or others) case studies.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  13. #42
    BAC
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    I'm aware of what Mr. Ayoob says, but I have not yet seen or read any cases where such was the case. I've heard a lot of things about guns; my own state was supposed to become a Wild West (both before concealed carry and before implementing our castle doctrine and stand-your-ground laws). My own thoughts are pretty simple: if using "scary" weapons is a problem, I'd like to see it being a problem. How many incidents can be documented of people using "scary" weapons who were penalized specifically because of those "scary" weapons? How does this compare to all uses of "scary" weapons in lawful self-defense?

    As a science student I'm kinda big into the "show me" thing.


    -B
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  14. #43
    BAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Well, there was that case in AZ where a hiker shot and killed a dog owner who charged at him, after he had been rushed by the man's dogs. The jury convicted him, in part, because he used a 10mm handgun - which the prosecutor noted was "more powerful" than the handguns used by local law enforcement.
    There were a lot of other issues with the defense, no indication that he was convicted in any way because of the weapon he used (compare the time spent talking about the gun to the time spent discussing the wound patterns), and has since been released.


    -B
    RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.


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  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by cphilip View Post
    I have most of the Rifles mentioned.... M1A, M1 Carbine, AR15 and both the 47 and 74 AK variants and... to tell you the truth I would pick up the M1 Carbine as quick as any of them. It carries well, it handles well, it shoots good and it is light and quick to point.
    I agree with Mr. Philip that it is quick to point. Many handguns have gained the reputation for pointing naturally. For me the M1 Carbine uniquely has this attribute. It is a fast handling little rifle and tremendous for quick point shooting. By comparison the AR 15 has all the handling characteristics of an old high school band hall music stand.

    Here's some photos to help things along and a link to an old Defensive Carry thread I posted about the M1 Carbine. Since originally posting that thread I found the photo of my dad and his Carbine, taken in 1945. He still has that same carbine today and still shoots it.




    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...0-carbine.html



    The October 1943 production Underwood carbine I shoot.


    Only my opinion but I think M1 Carbines look and handle best in their World War II configuration with 15-round magazine and without the bayonet lug that was developed and added right at the end of the War.


  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    I'm aware of what Mr. Ayoob says, but I have not yet seen or read any cases where such was the case. I've heard a lot of things about guns; my own state was supposed to become a Wild West (both before concealed carry and before implementing our castle doctrine and stand-your-ground laws). My own thoughts are pretty simple: if using "scary" weapons is a problem, I'd like to see it being a problem. How many incidents can be documented of people using "scary" weapons who were penalized specifically because of those "scary" weapons? How does this compare to all uses of "scary" weapons in lawful self-defense?

    As a science student I'm kinda big into the "show me" thing.


    -B
    We're getting way OT here, but the point is this. There are MANY documented cases where the type of weapon, the ammo, the caliber, the presentation, even the cocking of a hammer prior to shooting were contributing factors in the decision to prosecute and/or convict. I don't believe anyone is saying that a "scary" weapon has ever been the only factor, but to deny that it is (or at the very least can be) one of many factors is to ignore mountains of case studies.

    All that said, I own plenty of "scary" firearms, and have absolutely no issue with using them in lawful self defense. I've done the research and came to my own decision based on the research, not by discarding it or claiming that it doesn't exist.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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