March 28th, 2010 09:29 PM
M1 Carbine vs AR15?
Hey everyone. My first thread on this fine website, and I hope its not a dumb question. I have been on the fence for a number of years now on what rifle to buy. I have searched out this topic, and have found only information. I was hoping to hear your thoughts and receive some insight.
Before you answer, a little about what I own now, and what I will be using the rifle for. I currently own a Remington 870 express for primary home defense weapon, and a S&W Sigma 9mm for daily ccw and homedefense.
I want a good rifle to take to the range and punch holes in paper people, home defense, and SHTF/post acopolyptic scenario rifle.
AR15: SmithWesson or Armalite (have my heart set on it and have worked with them before - also already have 6 30-round mags for it)
AK47 (inexpensive and proven auto rifle-good caliber)
Beretta CX4 Storm (same cartridge as pistols)
And recently came across an Auto Ordnance M1 Carbine.
Auto-Ordnance 30 Cal. Carbine w/Blue Barrel & Walnut Stock AUTO AOM130 M1 CARBINE 30CARB WALNUT
The M1 is cheaper than the AR by about 300 dollars. I figure I can invest that several hundred dollars into a nice Olive drab sling, ammunition, and any other accesories. Your thoughts? Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
March 28th, 2010 09:43 PM
First of all, welcome to the forum!
Personally, I love the M1 Carbine. I have an older Universal Arms M1, but am drooling over you possibly choosing the Auto Ordinance one. If I was choosing, I'd go for the M1, yet that is me and my love for carbines. I would love to have another.
The pros are :
Light weight and smaller size.
Low recoil but still has some punch.
Can have 30 round magazines.
Can be used as a self defense weapon.
Ammo can be hard to find and expensive.
.30 caliber round said to be ineffective and has low stopping power.
May be out dated by some standards.
I really believe you cannot go wrong on the carbine, even though there would be others who disagree, thinking an AR-15 or AK would be the better choice. My vote is on the M1.
"A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"
The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green
March 28th, 2010 09:50 PM
JoJo Thanks for the quick reply. Yea I love the way the carbine looks as well. Especially with the walnut. They have a black synthetic model with folding stock, but the wood stocks looks so much better on this carbine. Ill have to do some shopping for .30 caliber ammo and see how hard or how pricey it is compared to .223
March 28th, 2010 10:09 PM
M1's are neat, and make for great HD weapons...here comes the but; they are a little anemic and ammo is getting hard to find and expensive. What you save over the AR will be quickly eaten up in ammo/mag costs.
With that said, 5.56 isn't cheap like it used to be. But, you have more range more power and parts are cheap and easy.
If you are drawn to the M1 solely on aesthetics, check out a Mini 14.
March 28th, 2010 10:09 PM
AK 74 , 5.45x39 not going to be as accurate as the other choices but functions flawless and ammo is cheap right now . You can usually get it for about .15 cents a round for milsup.
But I understand about the M1, I have to admit I've always wanted one myself. Well that and the Socom16.
March 28th, 2010 10:17 PM
go with a 223 type gun. ammo will be easy to find when it hits the fan.
An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
Red State State of Mind
March 28th, 2010 10:20 PM
Rigrat, If the M1A's werent so money, Id jump on one. Im looking into the AK74s now. Any particular brands I should stay away from?
These two are pretty nice. No AK74s on this website, may have to shop around.
March 28th, 2010 10:25 PM
With proper ammo selection, the M1 is a good choice for a SD weapon...here's a good little article about it:
M1 Carbines - M4Carbine.net Forums
But note, the author (who knows his stuff when it comes to these issues) still thinks the AR is a better choice.
I'd get the AR, personally...fwiw, that's my choice for a HD long gun.
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH
...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper
There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm
March 28th, 2010 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by Beretta
I hear you on the M1A's , thats the reason I haven't ever got one myself. But I still lust after them.
The IO's you linked are 7.62x39 caliber, but they are supposed to be ok AK47's. Better than the WASR 10/63's but not as good as the other brands.
As far as the AK74's , I'd say stay away from the lancaster's right now have allot of QC problems. I just got a Century build that allot of people got in on at $350.00. Figured for that price I would take a chance on it. So far from what I have seen it was a pretty good deal. Still have to get a sight adjustment tool and get the sights adjusted on it.
They sold out of the first two batches with the NDS rcvr's and now they have soom with the elk river rcvr's.
The Saiga rifle or the Arsenal SGL31-61 would be better picks.
The Saiga rifle can be converted to the AK look pretty easily.
It all just depends on how much you want to spend.
There are a few TGI truck guns out there which in my opinion are the best bang for the buck in AK74's.
March 28th, 2010 11:01 PM
I have an M1 carbine, and it is a great little rifle. That being said.. I agree with the comments that the cartridge can be anemic, hard to find, and pricey. Have you considered a Ruger ranch rifle? It would accept the ar mags, and can be had for less than a quality AR. I think it would fit what your looking for.
March 28th, 2010 11:08 PM
The ranch rifle accepts AR mags?
March 28th, 2010 11:15 PM
Beretta PX4 Storm .45 / Springfield Armory XDM 9 / Springfield Armory 1911 Milspec / Smith Wesson 686 / Bushmaster XM-15 E2
DPMS A-15 Oracle / Remington 870 Express Magnum / Remington 597 .22
March 28th, 2010 11:34 PM
You gotta love this... the moral equivalent of armchair racing.
A few months ago, Gun tests magazine did a review on M1 carbines, with 3 surplus models and the Auto-Ordnance. The AO finished last due to feeding problems. It also suffered in the eyes of the veteran/collectors among the reviewers for having features which were inconsistent with specific issues of the M1 over time. None of that keeps me from wanting one, though!
Beyond that, as others have noted, ammo availability is a potential problem, and at the end of the day the M1 carbine round is a pistol-class cartridge. You can't make a dollar our of fifteen cents, and you can't make the .30 Carbine round perform at 50 or 100 yards like the .223 or 7.62x39 rounds do.
If one were to peruse my previous posts, it would be obvious that I consider Olympic Arms, DPMS Panther, Bushamster and a few other carbines to be at the lower end of the reliability spectrum. But that doesn't mean they aren't any good... it's just that those guns ultimately will need more maintenance and attention than Colts or BCMs when the round count gets high or the duty cycle is intense. Will those conditions prevail in your case when the SHTF? Hard to say. And if you look in my safe, you'll see a 1st generation American Spirit Arms and a 2009 CMMG carbine, but no Colt or Bravo Company or Noveske in sight. Life is full of tradeoffs, and I've made mine (successfully, so far).
Focusing on your questions, I would guide you toward an AR of some competence, for reasons of downrange effectiveness, and ammo and parts availability. Now that prices have reached a reasonable level, you might even find a lightly-used AR that fits the ticket for you. But of course you'll need accessories (Aimpoint or EOTech, tactical sling, a dozen or more magazines, a means to carry ammo (chest rig, patrol bandoleer, etc.), backup iron sights, the list goes on and on. And don't forget to budget for training - owning the gun is only the first step!
By the way, welcome! No such thing as "dumb" questions here... no one has cornered the market on those as yet. And as always, dumb looks are still free.
NRA Endowment Member
March 29th, 2010 12:45 AM
Here's my 2 cents:
With the AK you get the advantage of cheap ammo if you use Wolf or Brown Bear for practice, cheaper gun in the first place, excellent reliability and most powerful of the three. However, ammo will suddenly be pretty expensive if the feds cut off imports and is overall less common than .223/5.56 ammo with a shorter effective range and less accuracy. Also worth noting is that this is the only one of the three that could double as a good deer gun if you use 154 gr JSP bullets with it.
The AR has the advantage in terms of accuracy, customizing, common parts and easy to find ammo. 5.56 and .223 is still fairly cheap for practice ammo as well. It is lighter than the AK and some might find it more "handy", though that is a bit subjective I suppose. I'm sure you already know it is the most expensive of the three, but it is the tightest and most accurate as well. If you want to customize it there are infinitely more options for the AR than the other two as well. It is more powerful than the .30 carbine round, but below the 7.62X39 round.
The M1 carbine is the only one of the three I don't own myself so I will restrict myself to pointing out that ammo is definitely harder to find and more expensive, and all my research on it places its effective range in about the same league as a lower-end AK, though it seems more accurate within that range. I have also read mixed reviews of the new production AO rifle, with a lot of reliability complaints. This is definitely something to thoroughly look into if you intend to use this to defend yourself with.
So there are the pros and cons of each as I see it, I hope you pick the one that works best for you. I don't have anything to say about a pistol-caliber carbine as I have zero experience with one, but I'm sure that a Beretta should be very reliable.
March 29th, 2010 01:02 AM
I have both an AR 15 and an M1 Carbine. I actually prefer the M1 Carbine but then I'm old fashioned.
Handloading mitigates the ammo costs for me. I'm pleased with my experiences with M1 Carbine reliability. I have a Underwood contract Carbine and grew up around my dad's Quality Hardware contract Carbine. Both of these WWII era rifles have been dependable. Neither the .223 nor the .30 Carbine are long range powerhouses but the .30 Carbine is a lot less wimpy than many believe.
If I want a real rifle then either the M1A or the M1 will be pressed into service. Otherwise, for general purpose use as a gun for the pickup, for hiking around our place, for plinking fun, or for home defense I choose the M1 Carbine over the AR 15.
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