This is a discussion on Holographic Sights within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; For a "short range" (i.e. 100 yards or less) a red dot on AR-15 cannot be beat for ease of use, speed and accuracy (especially ...
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For a "short range" (i.e. 100 yards or less) a red dot on AR-15 cannot be beat for ease of use, speed and accuracy (especially when tracking a moving target or moving yourself).
Like most things you get what you pay for. I would get either Aimpoint T-1 or H-1 on Larue mount.
Aimpoint Micro T-1 4MOA/M4 QD Mount Combo 500-009-660 500-009-661 500-009-660HK
Aimpoint Micro H-1 4MOA/M4 QD Mount Combo 500-015-660 500-015-661 500-015-660HK
Buy quality equipment and then you will only cry once.
Array
Minus the Aimpoint name and with less warranty and slightly less battery life but as tested by many folk including those at ARFcom same durability and functionality for one tenth the price with the same physical packaging & appearance...
Image source - http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/main...2_itemId=32166
$79 to $99
Primary Arms ~ Red Dot Sights
Primary Arms - AR15.COM
Review of Primary Arms cheap red dot - XDTalk Forums - Your XD/XD(m) Information Source!
Primary Arms Micro Dot Gen 3 Vuurwapen Blog
YouTube - Primary Arms Micro Dot Gen 3 Toss/Drop Fun
Of course if you're going to be shipping off to a known war zone or are a LEO or are running a security detail that seriously mandates use of such gear then a real not knockoff Aimpoint makes the most sense. Especially when Uncle Sam/the client is paying for it anyway by way of reimbursement/expense charge back.
But for the 98.5% rest of us who are shooting no further than 100 yds. at best on a range under at the worst overcast grey skies not 10' away from a heated truck/car with a sammich and hot coffee inside...Well then these lesser and lower cost product should be more than fine for that use and the one off odds against odds use in repelling Deebo upon he kicking in our residence door.
There is cost and there is benefit, and jut beyond where the two meet is called the area of depreciating return.
Toys are meant to be fun and tools to be useful. Not to bankrupt you nor steal food from your table.
- Janq is neither GIJOE nor COBRA, and thus does not need GIJOE or COBRA grade and attendant cost gear
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
There, fixed that for ya...Originally Posted by kdydak
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
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Well I do not have the PA micro dot but I looked it up. I would say 250 hours vs 8 years is a bit more then "slightly less battery life"
If you just want something to play with on the range sure, if you want something to depend your life on (even if it is a HD gun) then it is quite lacking.
I found a good thread comparing the T1 with PA micro dot:
Review of Primary Arms cheap red dot - M4Carbine.net Forums
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That's what I'd said.
And the battery life item is if you just leave it on and running...To which there isn't real pressing need to do such a thing/or have such a feature for a civilian.
- Janq
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
Array
For CQB engagement, a Holo is an exceptional optic. For longer distance target acquisition , a Holo with a flip-up adapted magnifier, is the cat's meow.
Sanitation Cans are at 200 yards
with 4X Magnifier
For something like this, with a budget of 300 clams, it's gonna have to be a knock off.
Last edited by los; April 13th, 2010 at 08:09 PM.
What we've got here is failure to communicate.
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While approved for military use they have been beat out by aimpoint for the CCO contract twice and the units issued to SOCOM were recalled and refitted due to battery contacts failing at an appalling rate.
I know the have an auto-off, the battery problem I was referring to was EOtechs being turned off, stored, and then draining the batteries while stored but turned off.
I know it sounds like I'm hating on EOtech, but I would use one of the XPS models in a heartbeat if it fit my needs. But they don't, so I'll stick with an aimpoint. In the unlikely but serious event that I need to grab my rifle and train it on the stairwell leading to my bedroom I want the optic to be on and ready to go with no fuss.
Array
I generally agree, I have used Holo's and red dots at just about every price range over the years. Sure, if I am going into combat tomorrow I would get the best sight money can but like Aimpoint or Eotech (I own examples of both) but for the average Joe who wants a good reliable red dot or holo for a HD or plinking weapon the two best sub $200 options are the Primary Arms red dots or the Vortex Strikefire. The low end tube type red dots by makers like NC Star, Simmons, Tasco, BSA and some others are always hit and miss as far as quality and reliability.
Last edited by pirate; April 13th, 2010 at 08:54 PM.
When I leave the home port:
S&W 642 Airweight, Ruger SP 101, Colt Detective Spec., CZ RAMI, Kahr PM9, Kahr CW40, S&W Model 10-7, Glock 30, 19, and 26, Browning Hi Power, CZ82, Colt Commander, Dan Wesson PM7, Ruger LCP
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Thanks for the input. More research but PA looks like it may be the way to go as far as inexpensive with better reliability. I would love to spend 5k and get the best of the best but my daughters like to eat. I've been trying to get them to stop but to no avail...
For a man interested only in passin' through, he suddenly found himself entangled in a deadly struggle….
ad utrumque paratus
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Or maybe the mueller with a decent magnifier.
For a man interested only in passin' through, he suddenly found himself entangled in a deadly struggle….
ad utrumque paratus
Maybe it was a "doctored" photo, but what impressed me about the EOTech over a traditional "tube" type red dot sight was the wide field of view.
EOTech's website had a comparison photo looking down a narrow hallway inside a building with a door at the end and an "exit" sign above it.
Looking through the Aimpoint scope you saw the red dot clearly on the center of the door at the end of the hallway but you couldn't see the wall on either side until about 1/2 way down the hall from the shooters position.
Looking through the EOTech, from supposedly the exact same placement, you were able to see an armed bad guy with a ski mask who was "hugging" the wall on the right side of the shooter.
I've only looked through a handful of EOTech at dealer's tables at various gun shows. I like it when they are co-witnessed with the iron sights.
As Janq pointed out, they are paralax free so where ever that dot is in the screen, is where POI is going to be. Even if the red dot is in the very upper left corner of the glass pane. Also I like the fact that if the glass screen is partially obscured by dirt and mud or if it's cracked and broken... If you can see the reticle between the broken pieces or mud smears, you're good to go.
I don't know which I'll end up getting... EOTech or Aimpoint. I'll have to do more research when I get to the point of buying one. However on the surface, I thought EOTech had several extra selling points over the red dots.
I haven't heard of many complaints on EOTech from Iraq and AStan troops.
-Bark'n
Semper Fi
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
No, the photo I was looking for was a picture of a shooter with his AR shouldered looking down his optical scope with the holo sight mounted on side of scope.This what you were looking for?
They are know as 1:00 offset mounts. A small correction, you rotate the gun to utilize them, not your head.
-Bark'n
Semper Fi
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
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FOV is a moot point, a photo can't recreate what happens when you're using a RDS properly with both eyes open. The housing becomes a ghost image, you can still kind of see it's there, but it obscures NOTHING downrange. I'm not an ophthalmologist, but I think it has something to do with your brain putting together the images from your left and right eyes.
+1
-Bark'n
Semper Fi
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
Array
This...
Image source - NcSTAR: Mounts
As used like this...
'Fort Benning 3-Gun Challenge 26-17'
Image source- Shooting USA ~ SHOW 26-17
- Janq
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
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