Holographic Sights

This is a discussion on Holographic Sights within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; No offense taken at all. Agreed, a rifle can be successfully index 'aimed'...And I've done that as well. As well I also agree a shotgun ...

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Thread: Holographic Sights

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    No offense taken at all.

    Agreed, a rifle can be successfully index 'aimed'...And I've done that as well.

    As well I also agree a shotgun does not kill everything in 20' cone forward of the muzzle. Not even with a spreader choke.
    Unless you're an actor in the movies or on TV.

    Also agreed, we are OT. : p
    I will though seriously be mindful to grab my digi-cam and bring it with during my next trip to the range (hopefully Friday).

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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  3. #47
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    I prefer the magic methods. Magic (also known as "the force") just works better.
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  4. #48
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    I haven't heard of many complaints on EOTech from Iraq and AStan troops.
    99.9% of the Iraq and Astan troops never fire their rifle. Or leave the FOB. Every one of those that have an EOTech mounted that I've talked to really love it. (And I usually make a point of approaching them and asking about it)

    The few folks I know who are shooting bad guys in the face hate EOTechs. With a passion.

    Part of the problem lies within the way the parent company, L3Com lied, blamed the user and tried to diminish the problem with the battery box. Maybe the XPS fixed the problem, but I dunno.

    I've owned two which I used for casual use and didn't have a problem. So maybe for the Regular Joe, they will do okay.

  5. #49
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    Hmmm... Don't know if I should be offended by 120mm or not...

    Believe me, I left the FOB in Afghanistan. In fact, we barely HAD a FOB as such when we first got there, and my AOR started 75 kms from our gate. Two to three week patrols were the norm for the platoon I led (a recon/sniper platoon), and while we only had two EOTechs in the platoon (vice 17 M68s), neither had any sort of issue. In fairness, neither did we have any real issues with the M68s...

    In Iraq, I did "executive protection" (for lack of a better term) and, while the conditions certainly weren't as harsh as east-central A-stan, it was hardly a "soft" environment. There, we were authorized iron sights, EOTechs, or 2x "mini" ACOGs. I'd say 1/3 to 1/2 used EOTechs, and I saw very few problems with the ones being deployed. At the "shooting in the face" distances involved in most or our missions, the EOTech excelled.

    I can't speak towards their (L3Com) handling of any reported problems, I can only say that we had very few problems to report. Maybe we just got a good batch, maybe we just got lucky, or maybe it was something else, but my EOTech has scratches and gouges to show for it's hard use, and it still works as good as the day I got it in Feb 2004.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    My carbine with EOTech as normally mounted forward...





    Next on the to do list for it are BUIS (most probably Troy Micros) as well as a Primary Arms or Vortec magnifier on a La Rue swing away mount.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #51
    Member Array Passin' Through's Avatar
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    Alright I'm ordering the Mueller. Question though, why not mount it on my carry handle so that my BUIS are readily available?
    For a man interested only in passin' through, he suddenly found himself entangled in a deadly struggle….

    ad utrumque paratus

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    P'T,

    Mounting on your carry handle is an item some folk do...


    Image source - Combat Optical Hunting Sports: RED DOT SIGHT 4 DIFFERENT RETICLES Free Carry handle mount for only $49.95

    ...I've never seen this done though IRL.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #53
    Member Array Passin' Through's Avatar
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    Janq it just seems at the end of the day that it makes more sense to mount it that way. It still gives you that open field of view with the sight and makes BUIS readily available in case of a malfunction. It may not have that tac ti cool look but it has that prac ti cool feel...
    For a man interested only in passin' through, he suddenly found himself entangled in a deadly struggle….

    ad utrumque paratus

  10. #54
    Member Array ScubaDuba's Avatar
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    I used MARS, M68, Eotech, and ACOG in Iraq. They are all pretty cool. Ranked in order of how much I liked them:
    1. MARS
    2. Eotech
    3. M68

    ACOG is really a marksmans optic, not technically CCO. It was really nice though. I have gone back and forth about optics on my personal (paid for by me) M4. It would really only be for the fun factor since I am an Infantryman, and open sights are my friend. If I was to get something, I would go for a holosight with a flip-up magnifier.

    As for the forward mounting: When we had A2s, we mounted them on a rail that attached to the carrying handle, it sucked. When we got A3 and A4s we mounted them pretty much directly in the middle of the upper receiver rail. I preferred it that way, and we always shot both eyes open. If you close one eye you may as well not use a CCO.
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  11. #55
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Got ya.

    I assume your gun is an M16A1/2/3 type with fixed handle.

    Those with A4 type having a pic rail do though normally run both BUIS and electro optic together and even some set them up to be cowitnessed, which is not absolutely necessary.
    Personally I could give a care about looks and being tacti-cool...As nobody is paying me money or giving me gear to look cool or cover that often times inordinate expense.

    On my carbine the EOTech is mounted using a single thumbwheel so it comes off in seconds very easily, no tools required.
    If it went down I'd just remove it and keep on truckin.

    While the red dot on my shotgun it is mounted using two allen head screws and I've got it on their tight, which later I will remount using thread locker (Loctite blue being semi-perm).
    If it is off (or battery dies) I can continue to use the gun as I normally would when firing shot looking through the glass and _pointing_ the barrel at the target as to the specific area I wish to impact. I tested this too and it works fine out to my max test distance of 50 yds.
    Where as if I were firing solid projectile/slugs and say the unit went down or was turned off I would then _aim_ using the rifle type front sight with my eye itself being the rear sight.
    Of course I would not be as exactly precise if I'd had a rear sight installed with thread a needle precision...But then again this is a shotgun not a rifle. For deer at 50-75 yds. it'll be more than fine enough.
    Down the road though I will install on the shotgun a ghost ring type rear sight as to the rear of the red dot...And keep an allen key in my range kit and among my field pack for emergency removal.

    Practi-cool > Tacti-cool...IMHO : )

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #56
    cmb
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    los's setup is awesome, those are cool, a friend has one, I do not know much about all the brands and ins and outs but i have handled a setup like this... very nice...

  13. #57
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passin' Through View Post
    Alright I'm ordering the Mueller. Question though, why not mount it on my carry handle so that my BUIS are readily available?
    The main argument against mounting an optic on top of an A2 carry handle is that it precludes getting a good cheek weld against the stock. More so, though, it requires you to adjust your shooting position and cheek weld depending if you're using the optic or irons. This can cause some inconsistencies and people generally don't like it.

    The other reason is that it puts the optic farther above the bore axis than the iron sights which will cause your optic and your irons to have different POI's for the same POA at any given range (except the range they are both zero'd at). Again, people frown on this from a consistency standpoint. You can fix this effect to a degree by zeroing the optic at a different range than the irons, but it will never be completely gone.

    I say, if all you have is an A2, mount your sight on top of the handle, zero it to minimize the difference is POI, and start saving your pennies for a flat-top upper.

    If you have a flat-top upper with a detachable carry handle, you really should get a set of folding BUIS, put the carry handle in your gun parts drawer, and mount the optic properly, co-witnessed with the BUIS. This will give the best results and you retain the ability to quickly switch to irons.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
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  14. #58
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Hmmm... Don't know if I should be offended by 120mm or not...

    Believe me, I left the FOB in Afghanistan. In fact, we barely HAD a FOB as such when we first got there, and my AOR started 75 kms from our gate. Two to three week patrols were the norm for the platoon I led (a recon/sniper platoon), and while we only had two EOTechs in the platoon (vice 17 M68s), neither had any sort of issue. In fairness, neither did we have any real issues with the M68s...

    In Iraq, I did "executive protection" (for lack of a better term) and, while the conditions certainly weren't as harsh as east-central A-stan, it was hardly a "soft" environment. There, we were authorized iron sights, EOTechs, or 2x "mini" ACOGs. I'd say 1/3 to 1/2 used EOTechs, and I saw very few problems with the ones being deployed. At the "shooting in the face" distances involved in most or our missions, the EOTech excelled.

    I can't speak towards their (L3Com) handling of any reported problems, I can only say that we had very few problems to report. Maybe we just got a good batch, maybe we just got lucky, or maybe it was something else, but my EOTech has scratches and gouges to show for it's hard use, and it still works as good as the day I got it in Feb 2004.
    Yeah, you know what I'm talking about, though.

    If you live outside the wire, you know it. I have a picture somewhere of some allied troops at Tim Hortens eating donuts, and another of some line dogs in a dust storm in Gereshk with a caption:

    "Afghanistan Deployment - YMMV"

    Like I said, my two EOTechs were fine, but SOCOM had ****-fits with theirs.

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    P'T,

    I came across a thread moment ago at SIgForum that immediately made me think of you...

    RRA "Tactical Carry Handle" purpose? - Topic Powered by Social Strata

    Rock River Arms: RRA Tactical Carry Handle



    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  16. #60
    Member Array J0eyg86's Avatar
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    A name that i dont think i saw on here but if it was sry for repeating it.

    Vortex optics strikefire red dot. I picked one up about 6 months ago for $150 and couldnt be happier with it and there warranty (if they stick to there word that they advertise) is unbeatable with that price. They say lifetime no questions asked fully transferable if they cant fix it they will replace it. Now I dont know anyone whos put them to the test on that warranty.

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