My new Defense rifle

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Thread: My new Defense rifle

  1. #16
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    Very nice!

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array pirate's Avatar
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    I have one of thoses too, a HP 995 .......yes I do like pistol caliber carbines!


    When I leave the home port:
    S&W 642 Airweight, Ruger SP 101, Colt Detective Spec., CZ RAMI, Kahr PM9, Kahr CW40, S&W Model 10-7, Glock 30, 19, and 26, Browning Hi Power, CZ82, Colt Commander, Dan Wesson PM7, Ruger LCP

  4. #18
    Member Array Alchemist77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirate View Post
    ........ They have a factory installed bolt buffer than needs replacing every 2000 rounds or so or after a couple years because it will deteriorate and be problematic. The buffer is located in the back of the receiver and keeps the steel bolt from smacking the aluminum receiver. With a lot of shooting or over time they can wear out or get brittle. A couple companies make great replacement bolt buffers. I would order a couple right away and replace the one in the rifle since its used.....
    +1.... I had the pleasure of cleaning out a destroyed buffer in a Camp 9... Much better to replace the buffer BEFORE it makes a glorious mess in the action. The websites with the pictures and disassembly instructions are very helpful, as it is a little tricky in a couple of stages. I replaced the buffer and spring while I was in there... pretty inexpensive and available online.

    If you want something for inside the home that is much less likely to penetrate residential walls and retain energy to kill, a defensive shotgun with birdshot is a reasonable option, with buckshot and/or slugs in reserve in case better penetration / longer range becomes necessary.

    Alchemist77

  5. #19
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alchemist77 View Post
    +If you want something for inside the home that is much less likely to penetrate residential walls and retain energy to kill, a defensive shotgun with birdshot is a reasonable option, with buckshot and/or slugs in reserve in case better penetration / longer range becomes necessary.

    Alchemist77
    For the love of Mike, no.

    Birdshot is hopeless as a self-defense round. Any round that can stop/kill a person will penetrate typical residential walls.

    The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 2

    I have a good friend that took 3 round of #7 shot to the chest at point blank range. He walked over to the kitchen table, called 911 and sat in his chair waiting for them to come get him. He went to his daughter's concert the next night. The shot cup did more damage than the shot.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    For the love of Mike, no.

    Birdshot is hopeless as a self-defense round. Any round that can stop/kill a person will penetrate typical residential walls.

    The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 2

    I have a good friend that took 3 round of #7 shot to the chest at point blank range. He walked over to the kitchen table, called 911 and sat in his chair waiting for them to come get him. He went to his daughter's concert the next night. The shot cup did more damage than the shot.
    Exactly. This birdshot nonsense has got to stop. If it was designed to kill or even stop something the size of a human, it would not be called bird shot. If you are serious about defending yourself, you use a round that can actually do it with some degree of reliability.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array bsnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtv View Post
    +1

    I love my 995, and would not hesitate to use it in home defense mode, especially as it is the only weapon I have that is equipped with a laser. The only drawback is the ten-round magazine... but that is why I have five magazines.
    Yes I have collected quit a few mags as well. This gun works for me..
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. PSALM 144:1

    I CLING to my guns and my Bible.

  8. #22
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    Birdshot for SD

    I read so many arguments for/against birdshot, many, evidently, from those who have never seen the results of birdshot at close ranges.

    Most of us have heard of Clint Smith and, while I don't take anyone's word as pure gospel, on this statement by him I can agree.

    From American Handgunner, May/June 2010 issue, Reality Check:

    "I've seen a few people shot over the last 40 years, and yet the single most destructive gunshot wound I recall was a 12 gauge direct head hit from a skeet load across a very small living room. Bluntly, at the sound of the shot the fight was over--and isn't that ultimately what it's all about?"

    Clint Smith

    We're talking home defense here--inside, at close quarters, you standing at bedside/BG in the doorway. Don't fool yourself into thinking a load of birdshot can't be effective.

    Outside, at thirty yards, you're most likely gonna piss the BG off, but that's not the point being made here.
    For SD against a home invader, birdshot is as good as anything, and possibly better.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I read so many arguments for/against birdshot, many, evidently, from those who have never seen the results of birdshot at close ranges.

    Most of us have heard of Clint Smith and, while I don't take anyone's word as pure gospel, on this statement by him I can agree.

    From American Handgunner, May/June 2010 issue, Reality Check:

    "I've seen a few people shot over the last 40 years, and yet the single most destructive gunshot wound I recall was a 12 gauge direct head hit from a skeet load across a very small living room. Bluntly, at the sound of the shot the fight was over--and isn't that ultimately what it's all about?"

    Clint Smith

    We're talking home defense here--inside, at close quarters, you standing at bedside/BG in the doorway. Don't fool yourself into thinking a load of birdshot can't be effective.

    Outside, at thirty yards, you're most likely gonna piss the BG off, but that's not the point being made here.
    For SD against a home invader, birdshot is as good as anything, and possibly better.
    Hmmmm...perhaps it was so effective because it was a head shot, maybe?

    Heck, a head hit with a .22 short will likely be a fight stopper as well...does that mean it's a good choice as a defensive round?

    Nah. Since I'm not going to assume I'll get a lucky head shot in such a situation, I'll stick with my low-recoil 00 buck (actually, my first long gun choice is an AR, but...my "ready" shotgun in the safe is loaded with low-recoil 00 buck). I'll leave the birdshot for the birds.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Hmmmm...perhaps it was so effective because it was a head shot, maybe?

    Heck, a head hit with a .22 short will likely be a fight stopper as well...does that mean it's a good choice as a defensive round?

    Nah. Since I'm not going to assume I'll get a lucky head shot in such a situation, I'll stick with my low-recoil 00 buck (actually, my first long gun choice is an AR, but...my "ready" shotgun in the safe is loaded with low-recoil 00 buck). I'll leave the birdshot for the birds.
    True. Anyone who wants to use birdshot, I wish them the best of luck. I would never trust it though, nor would I recommend its use to anyone for HD purposes.

  11. #25
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I read so many arguments for/against birdshot, many, evidently, from those who have never seen the results of birdshot at close ranges.

    Most of us have heard of Clint Smith and, while I don't take anyone's word as pure gospel, on this statement by him I can agree.

    From American Handgunner, May/June 2010 issue, Reality Check:

    "I've seen a few people shot over the last 40 years, and yet the single most destructive gunshot wound I recall was a 12 gauge direct head hit from a skeet load across a very small living room. Bluntly, at the sound of the shot the fight was over--and isn't that ultimately what it's all about?"

    Clint Smith

    We're talking home defense here--inside, at close quarters, you standing at bedside/BG in the doorway. Don't fool yourself into thinking a load of birdshot can't be effective.

    Outside, at thirty yards, you're most likely gonna piss the BG off, but that's not the point being made here.
    For SD against a home invader, birdshot is as good as anything, and possibly better.
    I have a friend who was shot in the chest three times, from a 12 gauge with #7 bird shot from about 2-3 feet away. The shooter then fled, and my friend walked over to the kitchen table, picked up the phone and called 911. He then proceeded to sit at the kitchen table, and wait for the ambulance to arrive. They made him lie down in the gurney, but he fought them a little on it.

    The total damage to his body "looked" horrific. But after they cleaned him up, it turned out the shot cups did most of the damage; the birdshot was a PITA to get out of his tissue.

    The next day, he came to his daughter's music concert, where everyone who knew him and what happened kind of crowded around him and he told them what happened. He was obviously in pain and short of breath from the damage the shot cups did to his ribs.

    Seriously. I would never recommend bird shot for self defence. These were three solid, COM hits on this guy. I bet a single pellet didn't miss him.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    I have a friend who was shot in the chest three times, from a 12 gauge with #7 bird shot from about 2-3 feet away. The shooter then fled, and my friend walked over to the kitchen table, picked up the phone and called 911. He then proceeded to sit at the kitchen table, and wait for the ambulance to arrive. They made him lie down in the gurney, but he fought them a little on it.

    The total damage to his body "looked" horrific. But after they cleaned him up, it turned out the shot cups did most of the damage; the birdshot was a PITA to get out of his tissue.

    The next day, he came to his daughter's music concert, where everyone who knew him and what happened kind of crowded around him and he told them what happened. He was obviously in pain and short of breath from the damage the shot cups did to his ribs.

    Seriously. I would never recommend bird shot for self defence. These were three solid, COM hits on this guy. I bet a single pellet didn't miss him.
    And there have many, many more occurances of people taking multiple shots with handguns and rifles and walking away.

    But I'm willing to bet that a faceful or chestful of anything from a shotgun is going to convince a BG that he's in the wrong place and should probably exit post haste. And that's the point of home SD, isn't it? Or is it the general concensus that there must be a dead body lying on the floor for SD to be effective?
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array harley2007's Avatar
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    Very nice...looks like fun to shoot too!
    "I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!" - Dorothy Parker

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    And there have many, many more occurances of people taking multiple shots with handguns and rifles and walking away.

    But I'm willing to bet that a faceful or chestful of anything from a shotgun is going to convince a BG that he's in the wrong place and should probably exit post haste. And that's the point of home SD, isn't it? Or is it the general concensus that there must be a dead body lying on the floor for SD to be effective?

    I'm not.

    I'm not willing to bet my, or my family's lives on it.

    And I'm not going to bet their/my lives on a bad guy that will stop with a less than debilitating wound.

    If you're willing to gamble that way, that's your choice.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  15. #29
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    So? As long as total weight and velocity is the same birdshot and buckshot will have the same kinetic energy. When small objects are close together moving at the same speed we can treat them as one object in some regards. The only thing you give up with lead birdshot is penetration because of smaller pellets; the kinetic energy of the individual pellet being less, however using a denser material would negate some of this disadvantage. One might also recall Dick Cheney’s shooting. If I recall correctly those where 7’s or 8’s that penetrated at 70? Yards into the chest wall. Physically it does not seam that a person is taking and undue risk by using a larger size birdshot against a attacker. Actually one could probably argue that using a large denser then lead shot they have a more effective home defense weapon.

  16. #30
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexHassin View Post
    So? As long as total weight and velocity is the same birdshot and buckshot will have the same kinetic energy. When small objects are close together moving at the same speed we can treat them as one object in some regards. The only thing you give up with lead birdshot is penetration because of smaller pellets;
    Hold it right there: The #1 factor in ability to stop an individual is penetration. Kinetic energy is meaningless. If not, the shotgun would do just as much damage to the shooter as the shootee.

    Someone just posted the 1989 FBI study on another thread. If I can find it, I'll link it here

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