LongGunNewbie needs help!

LongGunNewbie needs help!

This is a discussion on LongGunNewbie needs help! within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Howdy. Been reading this forum a long time. Lots of good info. Need help here. Management has approved new toy expenditure (but she has warned ...

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Thread: LongGunNewbie needs help!

  1. #1
    New Member Array jdhermit's Avatar
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    Question LongGunNewbie needs help!

    Howdy.
    Been reading this forum a long time. Lots of good info.
    Need help here. Management has approved new toy expenditure (but she has warned me that the interest payments will be quite high).
    So, as I've been shooting for 30'ish years with handguns, I'm good on which of those I need to get...
    But, with long-guns, not so much!
    I have a Moss 500, but...don't...like...it. I don't know if its a subjective thing or what, but when I pick it up its a) too long and b) too barrel heavy.

    Part of me feels like I should allocate a portion of the funds to a long gun...AR buddies are screaming AR, AK buddies screaming AK. So, given that I have Yoda length arms, and can't stand my Mossberg, can anyone offer advice?
    I've thought about a Stoeger Coach gun (looks shorter and less barrel heavy, perhaps???), an AK, an AR, and just a simple shorter length hunting rifle. Which is most maneuverable (I know, i butchered the spelling)?

    Does that make sense at all? I know i'm focusing on ergonomics, and not the other aspects, but I *really* need help with the ergo part.

    Oh, one more thing- uses will be a) range plinking b) home defense and c) zombie's...but home defense will be *ONLY* if it feels better in my hands than the shotgun currently does. Otherwise, my first instincts will be to pick up a Glock.

    Thanks for advice!
    jd


  2. #2
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    For an inexpensive rifle that will suit your needs (but won't be the BEST at any of its intended roles), I think an SKS might be a good place to look. The length of pull is short, the weapon handles pretty well, it fires a decent (and common, and relatively inexpensive) round, etc.

    Other options include an M1 Carbine, a Barretta CX4 pistol caliber carbine, and, of course, an AR. With an adjustable stock on the AR, I'm sure you can find a comfortable length of pull, and most people find the AR to be one of the more ergonomic designs out there. Of course, you run the risk of hanging accessories off the thing like Christmas ornaments (I'm guilty of this when the situation calls for it), and then it can become very barrel heavy. Left relatively slick, it handles like the light, nimble rifle that it is...

    Good luck in your search!
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  3. #3
    Member Array RockStrongo's Avatar
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    I think the AR in a carbine length would be nice.. a colt 6920, or similar. Lots of spare parts, and accessories.

  4. #4
    gtv
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    My first thought was an SKS, since they tend to have a little shorter LOP which might fit your arms better. However, if you find the Mossy a little heavy, then the SKS may weigh more than you will like (unless you can get a para, with the shorter barrel). An AR carbine with adjustable stock would certainly fit the bill. If you decide to go the hunting rifle route, I might suggest a Savage or Remington bolt action in .243... both make a youth model that has a shortened LOP, which might suit you, and the .243 is a good all-around cartridge, with many different loads for everything from varmints to whitetail.
    "Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day... Teach a man to fish and he'll spend all his time in the basement tying flies and neglecting his personal hygiene." -- Jimmy James

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Katana's Avatar
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    I've got a Cx4 in 9mm, a Romanian Wasr 10/63 GP(AK clone), and a S&W M&P 15/22 (soon to have a GSG5-SD also.) For plinking, I'd recommend a .22.

    Now then, for home use or zombies, everything but the .22's are going to punch right through the wall. So my question for you is: How close are your neighbors and would you have a clean backdrop if you used a rifle for home defense?

    If the answer is your neighbors are very close by, then I probably wouldn't think about using a rifle or pistol caliber carbine for home defense. I'd put an adjustable stock on the mossberg and load it it up with #4 buckshot.

    If the answer is your neighbors are not close by, well then anything goes that you can legally own. And I know this isn't going to be much help, but I'd probably lean towards either an AK or an AR clone. You really can't go wrong with either one.

    As for me, if I had to pick one rifle to do everything you want to do, I'm going with AK-74. Inexpensive surplus ammo, inexpensive(not cheap) rifles to choose from, and the reliability and durability that AK's are famous for. If you keep the Warsaw Pact length stock on it, it's a good choice for someone with small arms, and the recoil is as manageable as any AR. Now you won't be able to hang as much stuff off the end as an AR(just not as many accessories are available for it), but you can buy aftermarket parts to hang lights, lasers, and scopes off of it.

    Good luck deciding, lots of options for you to look at.
    "Stand your ground, don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!" - John Parker April 19th, 1775 Lexington, MA

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  6. #6
    Member Array Delucas's Avatar
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    I like the FN Herstal PS90. It is my "go to" for HD.

    As I see it the pros are : 1) it's shorter than many other rifles, 2) Not as loud as an AR, Ak, shotgun, or handgun in enclosed environments, 3) 50 round mags can do alot of damage even if it is a .22 caliber, 4) Fragmentation rounds are made for it. 5) effective range is around +-200 yards, 6) It's light, the lower receiver is almost entirely polymer 6) Ammo prices didn't fluctuate throughout the Democratic takeover, 7) Ambidextrous controls - casings eject from the bottom

    cons : 1) ammo is propriety to FN (unless you reload or by from vendors like Elite Ammunition Home 2) It IS a .22 caliber round, 3) Effective range is around +-200 yards, 4.) Rounds can still easily penetrate sheet-rock and studs. 5) Ammo can't be bought at Walmart

    As with any rifle, rails can be purchased to mount lights, lasers, and optics. Anyone who has ever fired one of these rifles will tell you they are fun-as-hell to shoot.
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  7. #7
    Member Array Footslogger's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how much effort you want to invest... One option is to attend an Apple Seed course. While there you could borrow one of their 22's and get a lot of shooting time in. Chatting with others there can be helpful too.

    Once you complete the course you may have a better idea of what you want, and you would have a certificate allowing you to purchase from the CMP. From the CMP you could pick up an M1 Garand for about $500 I think, and they also offer M1 Carbines but I am unsure of the pricing on them.

    I had an SKS for a long time and I liked it. However after I attended an Apple Seed I ended up with an AR type in 308.
    Last edited by Footslogger; April 17th, 2010 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Extra 'M' in CMP for. Duh.
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    Member Array isme's Avatar
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    I tend to go a different route on this one.
    I do like the Mossberg 500 and have several, I also like the coach guns and have one in 12 gauge, but...
    My go to long gun is a model 92 Winchester 44 mag. trapper with the 16 inch barrel. It holds 8+1 rounds, weighs 5 pounds, and is very slick handling.
    The only accessory is a 10 round butt cuff ammo carrier. 18 rounds of 44 mag. 240 grain bullets will handle almost anything I might run into (including zombies) and it doesn't have the negative "black gun" look. That's 4,320 grains of "thump" in a very compact package. It would take a lot of .223 ammo to get that kind of knockdown power.
    Oh yea, and it looks good to.
    Good luck.
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  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Brady's Avatar
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    Depending on your budget, Olympic Arms makes an AR carbine in pistol calibers and some will use your Glock magazines, I believe 9 or 40. Olympic Arms, Inc. - AR-15 Carbines (16")

    Rock River Arms has them as well. Can't tell about mags though. Rock River Arms: NEW! RRA LAR-40 CAR A2 / A4
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Ergonomically speaking, it's hard to beat an AR carbine with a collapsible stock.

    If my 10yr old godson can shoot one easily, it should work for you.

    And, one can go super-lightweight if desired; get a pencil (lightweight contour) barrel, with a lightweight free-float tube (NOT a rail system!), and don't hang a ton of crap on it...you can get close to a six pound rifle after everything is said and done.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Exodus's Avatar
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    I was a late bloomer with rifles as well. My first rifle was a Marlin 336A in .30-30. It's a good all-around rifle. Great for home defense (if you've got a good backstop. Remember! Bullets go through people!). I routinely take mine out to 200 yards with iron sights. It also makes a great hunting rifle.

    Marlin recently came out with a new model, the 336BL. It's got an 18" barrel and a larger loop (The normal "A" & "C" models have a 20" barrel).

    Granted, my second rifle was an Armalite M15-A4 - so if you go the EBR route, I can't blame you.
    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent

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    Okay I will bite..... Get an AK-47 preferably a russian like a saiga or and arsenal import. I have both AK's and AR's and they are both fantastic, but I wish I would have started with AK's.

    They cost less and are by far more robust and fun to shoot. AK's are just easy to start with and have a fairly common round. Do yourself a favor and don't go with the P90 like the poster suggested above. Great gun, but for a SHTF or HD you don't want an uncommon round.
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  13. #13
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    Okay I will bite..... Get an AK-47 preferably a russian like a saiga or and arsenal import. I have both AK's and AR's and they are both fantastic, but I wish I would have started with AK's.

    They cost less and are by far more robust and fun to shoot. AK's are just easy to start with and have a fairly common round. Do yourself a favor and don't go with the P90 like the poster suggested above. Great gun, but for a SHTF or HD you don't want an uncommon round.
    Especially an uncommon round that is spectacularly ineffective at incapacitating a human being. Defeat body armor, yes.

    Secondly, those who reload 5.7x28mm need to truly understand how the round works. Failure to do so will lead to a spectacular kaboom.

    The AR makes a really good SD gun. Get one with a collapsible stock and don't look back.

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Brady's Avatar
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    If I weren't in the poor house I think I'd have one of these or something very similar.

    Olympic Arms Model PCR97, 40S&W, 11.5in. Very good plus condition
    ...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36
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  15. #15
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    I like my AR's but since you have buddies with both AK's and AR's try em both. See what feel good to you.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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