AR Ammunition Warning

This is a discussion on AR Ammunition Warning within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Has anyone seen this? Got it from cmmginc.com: Ammunition Warning I just bought 200 rounds of .223 Wolf Ammunition for my M&P 15 MOE. So ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array JXONE's Avatar
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    AR Ammunition Warning

    Has anyone seen this?

    Got it from cmmginc.com:
    Ammunition Warning

    I just bought 200 rounds of .223 Wolf Ammunition for my M&P 15 MOE. So not sure if I should use them.

    Ammunition Warning

    With the growing popularity of the AR-15/M16 family of rifles the demand for ammunition has risen sharply. Unfortunately, this has made quality ammunition hard to find. CMMG recommends using only domestic, commercially manufactured ammunition or high quality surplus NATO specification ammunition.

    Using any reloaded ammunition, any steel cased ammunition or Wolf Ammunition VOIDS your Limited Lifetime Warranty. <--- (Is this true )

    When purchasing domestically produced ammunition, questions can be answered by contacting the manufacturer directly. They will have the most accurate information about their products. If you have a problem with any ammunition be sure to have the lot number from the packaging that the ammunition in question came from; the manufacturer will need this information.

    When purchasing surplus ammunition, it is not likely that the manufacturer is known or can be contacted. Most surplus ammunition is not from questionable sources, but some surplus ammunition is from rejected lots that did not meet a required specification. Find out as much as you can or purchase a small sample of the surplus ammunition before purchasing larger quantities. AR-15.com has the Ammo Oracle, and can answer most questions on ammunition. Many message boards will also have posts with reviews on ammunition by members. While these resources do not represent the final authority in ammunition related issues, they serve as a helpful guide for general information concerning various types of ammunition.

    Before Firing Any Ammunition, inspect each cartridge for defects. Dispose of cartridges that exhibit and of the following defects:
    Deformed brass, which includes burrs, cracks, dents, scratches, bent or bowed cases.
    Deformed bullet, which includes burrs, dents and scratches.
    Improperly seated bullets. The case neck should be uniform with no deformations and the bullet should be seated tightly in the case. Check overall length to ensure the bullet is not seated too deeply or has been pushed in from an impact. Some ammunition may have a colored sealant around the case neck.
    Improperly seated primers. The primer should be flush with the base of the case with no visible damage to the primer cup. Some ammunition may have a colored sealant around the primer.
    Corroded cartridges with any amount of metal that is corroded and eaten away.
    Do not fire cartridges exposed to extreme heat (135 degrees F) until they have cooled.


    Warning Signs
    Not all defective ammunition has visible traits to distinguish it from good ammunition. If any cartridge from a lot of ammunition exhibits any of the following characteristics, discontinue the use of the entire lot and contact the manufacturer or dispose of the ammunition properly.

    Inconsistent function. This can also be a firearm related malfunction. Clean and test the rifle with another source of ammunition. If proper function is restored discontinue the use of the suspect ammunition immediately.
    Blown primers. This is an indication of improper powder charge. Discontinue the use of the suspect ammunition immediately.
    Inconsistent sound. Noticeably louder or quieter reports indicate improper powder charge. Discontinue the use of the suspect ammunition immediately.
    Cartridge fails to chamber. This can also be a firearm related malfunction. Clean and test the rifle with another source of ammunition. If proper function is restored discontinue the use of the suspect ammunition immediately.


    Other ammunition related problems can occur. If you believe that ammunition you are using is preforming in an inconsistent manner, do not take any chances that you are experiencing a one-off occurrence. Discontinue the use of the suspect ammunition and contact the manufacturer.

    Your rifle is a sizable investment. Make every effort to use quality ammunition, to ensure your safety and and prolong the life of your firearm for years of enjoyment.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Yes, most manufacturers will not honor warranty if you fire Wolf or any other steel case ammunition in your firearm. Same for reloaded ammunition whether personal or commercially remanufactured.

    I prefer brass cased ammunition in all my firearms and refuse to put steel cased ammunition in any of my guns. You paid $800-1,000+ for the weapon and you're going to run the cheapest ammunition you can find through it? Doesn't make sense to me which is why I use quality brass cased ammunition. That being said, many AR owners shoot Wolf steel case ammunition in their guns without much issue.

    Side note, Wolf is in Russia so good luck with customer service if something goes wrong.
    Ram Rod and dnilson like this.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  4. #3
    JT
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    That warning is for CMMG rifles. Check with Smith & Wesson for yours.

    Find out what your manufacturer says about their warranty. For example, Bushmaster doesn't have a prohibition against Wolf.

    If it won’t void your warranty, shoot away. Wolf will not hurt your AR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    You paid $800-1,000+ for the weapon and you're going to run the cheapest ammunition you can find through it? Doesn't make sense to me which is why I use quality brass cased ammunition.
    I use it because I can get a lot more practice time in using Wolf. Like I said, it won’t hurt your AR.
    Blessed be the Lord my rock who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. Psalm 144:1

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Member Array JXONE's Avatar
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    Good call "JT" I'll look it up

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    JT
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    I'll take it off your hands. I'll even paying the shipping for you to send it to me.

    Seriously, if you take a look at ar15.com, you’ll find that most people shoot it. So if S&W is ok with it, shoot away.
    Blessed be the Lord my rock who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. Psalm 144:1

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Member Array JXONE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT View Post
    I'll take it off your hands. I'll even paying the shipping for you to send it to me.
    LOL might take you up on that. I'm calling S&W right now

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    I checked out m4carbine.net.....and shoot Wolf through my CMMG without a problem...at worst, you replace the extractor and spring...
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    It's pretty much common knowledge among the AR crowd that Wolf and similar stuff can cause problems. ARs seem to be more sensitive to it, whereas SKS' and AKs seem to gobble it up with no problems at all. I got the same warning verbally from American Spirit Arms (the original ASA) when I bought my first AR 6 years ago.

    That said, running 200 rounds of Wolf though an AR of any manufacture is not a death sentence. Your gun won't blow up (assuming no bullets stuck in the barrel), melt, spray shrapnel sideways, and you won't develop warts or hemorrhoids as a result.

    What you may experience is stuck cases and some varnish or lacquer deposits in your chamber. Using an AR chamber brush and solvent vigorously should clear it out.

    If your AR shooting is pretty much just running a few mags downrange, you probably won't have any significant problems. But if you're in a more intense environment such as a training course, your gun is going to get pretty hot and that's when things go south in a hurry. I've been in some high-round count (500+/day) courses and I'd say that at least 50% of the ammo problems were due to steel-cased ammo (typically Wolf).
    Smitty
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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    AR parts are cheap. I don't think it to be unsafe.
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

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    Member Array Hampster's Avatar
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    I use Wolf steel case ammo in my AR and AK with little problem in the AR and none in the AK. The only real problem that I have found with the AR is after shooting a bunch of steel case and switching to brass. I think what happens is that the steel case doesn't expand enough to form a good seal which causes excessive fouling, switch to brass and get good expansion (with all of that varnish and fouling) and you end up with a failure to eject.
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    I personally have shot 10's of thousands of rounds of steel cased ammo in many different handguns and rifles, including AR's and have never had one single issue in any firearm. The steel used in the cases of Wolf and other Russian made ammo is very soft, far softer than your extractor. Other than the dirty factor of this ammo its not an issue. I just purchased a S&W M&P15R in 5.45x39 and you can beat I will be shooting cheap steel cased Wolf and milsurp. Not the least be concerned since I clean my firearms after each session.

    Wolf ammunition is no longer made with a lacquer coating on the cartridge casing due to issues relating to lacquer coated steel cases getting stuck in the chamber of some rifles causing difficulty in ejecting the spent cartridges. This issue was more of a problem with cartridges with narrowly tapering walls like .556/.223 than those with steep case walls like 7.62x39 mm ammo or pistol ammunition.

    Steel cased Wolf ammo cases do not expand sufficiently to form a complete gas seal against the chamber when compared to brass-cased ammunition. Its very soft steel but not as soft as brass. Thats why its dirty and tougher to clean but its poses no safety issues.

    Good read here
    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm
    C hawk Glock and l1a1 like this.
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    Distinguished Member Array pirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post



    I prefer brass cased ammunition in all my firearms and refuse to put steel cased ammunition in any of my guns. You paid $800-1,000+ for the weapon and you're going to run the cheapest ammunition you can find through it? Doesn't make sense to me which is why I use quality brass cased ammunition.
    Do the math.......

    I think we all would prefer to shoot brass cased ammo, if money was not an object. And with as many rounds as I shoot yearly I can buy a new rifle every two years with the cost savings.....there is a good reason for you.

    Even the cheap brass cased .223 like PMC Bronze which is made in Korea cost approximately .34 a round or $340 per 1000. Wolf costs around .22 a round or $215 per $1000. If you shoot 5K rounds a year you save $625 x 2 years of ammo is $1250......oh look a very nice new rifle every two years.

    Its well worth more cleaning time or a broken extractor from time to time if you shoot alot like I do.

    Prices above are off AIM web site less shipping.
    When I leave the home port:
    S&W 642 Airweight, Ruger SP 101, Colt Detective Spec., CZ RAMI, Kahr PM9, Kahr CW40, S&W Model 10-7, Glock 30, 19, and 26, Browning Hi Power, CZ82, Colt Commander, Dan Wesson PM7, Ruger LCP

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    I have done the math. Start handloading.

    Per thousand rounds
    Brass $55
    Powder $57
    Primers $25
    Bullets $70
    TOTAL $207 per thousand for the first time around.

    If you amortize your brass for 10 shots each piece, the $55 per thousand comes out to 55/10,000 or $.0055 per round, which is insignificant, so let's leave that out. Now 207-55=152. You can handload a 55gr FMJ for $152 per 1,000 rounds. Time? Perhaps 2 hours on a Dillon 550 or 1.5 hours on a Dillon 650. Will pay the equipment off after 4 to 5 thousand rounds.

    If I buy primers, powder, and bullets under my OEM FFL license, I can handload .223 for $122 per thousand rounds.

    Cheapest ammunition is Wolf around $200-ish per thousand. You can handload more accurate, custom tuned to your rifle .223 ammunition for $50 per thousand less than anything else on the market.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    There's also commercial reloaders that will reload your brass for you.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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    Distinguished Member Array pirate's Avatar
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    We are not talking about handloading here in this tread until now but I have been hand loading for 25 years, and sure with many calibers its more than worth the time and effort. If I am shooting for bench rest accuracy or hunting ammo I hand load, if not I often buy the inexpensive loaded ammo for plinking and general range time or competition shooting. My time is worth a lot to me also and when you shoot as much as I do which often is 8-10 times a month or more you cannot hand load for all your needs. This tread is not about a hand loading VS commerical ammo issue anyway, its about the advantages or disadvantages of steel cased ammo and the effects on your rifle and budget. And the bottom line is most casual shooters do not "roll their own" or even want to, or have the time and space to set up for it so they are looking for economical ways to keep shooting and/or shoot more for less. So the point here is steel cased ammo even with the short commings is very cost effect and in the 35 years I have been shooting semiauto rifles well worth the slightly extra cleaning time and has never caused any damage to a firearm I own. As far as reloading, 5 to 8 times for reloading quality centerfire rifle brass is more realistic IMO.
    When I leave the home port:
    S&W 642 Airweight, Ruger SP 101, Colt Detective Spec., CZ RAMI, Kahr PM9, Kahr CW40, S&W Model 10-7, Glock 30, 19, and 26, Browning Hi Power, CZ82, Colt Commander, Dan Wesson PM7, Ruger LCP

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