Another pointless class 3 post.
This is a discussion on Another pointless class 3 post. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by SIXTO
I have daily access to subguns, M4, and M16s among others. I have to say that there is no way I ...
May 14th, 2010 12:27 PM
I have access to an M16 w/10" bbl and a 16"upper 22lr conversion,Uzi,MP5k,AK47,and a couple of others every week,I haven't shot anything Full Auto in several months,just mainly shooting handguns,even reloading 223 at around .13 cents a round gets pricey when you can burn up 30 rounds in 3 quick bursts.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
May 14th, 2010 06:49 PM
Keep in mind the part that makes a gun full auto/burst fire, costs about 5 dollars to make at your local gun shop. But the Machine Gun Act changed that, and it's illegal to make them anymore unless you're making them for the government. So the only way to get a full auto gun/part is to buy what was created before 1986, and obviously, people are going to sell them for a high price since you can't get them anymore. Do you really want to pay 12k-20k for a full auto gun, when the gun is 100% identical to the AR you already own, except there is a little $5 part inside that allows it to act as full auto?
I'd rather stick with my semi-auto.
Now, you can get M11's and a few other subguns in full auto for pretty cheap, only 2-3 grand. Ammo is cheaper :)
May 15th, 2010 12:44 AM
If the OP wanted a non selectable full auto then a DIAS or drop in auto sear ( the 5 dollar part you mentioned ) would be an option. That is of course if you could actually find one that was properly documented and for sale. To obtain a true select fire and burst fire there is a little more involved.
May 15th, 2010 01:58 AM
I think it is a rich man's hobby, as stated by hotguns. I can only afford $2,000 or so. There may be some very hard to find options at that price, but I don't want to own a full auto just to own a full auto.
Originally Posted by gilliland87
So to sum up, about $20,000 for a select fire (semi to burst) AR.
May 15th, 2010 11:44 PM
Unfortunantly your about right
I have known some to be had for the 11-13k mark (m-16's) but 15 is more realistic. The 200 dollar tax stamp and shipping but If your local leo won't sign off a little extra to set up a trust. You can get into a full auto sub gun like a mac for around 2-3 if you keep your eyes peeled but it only goes up from there.
A better foray into the class 3 world would be cans and SBS SBR and the likes but hey it's really whatever floats your boat right.
On a side note the only way prices would drop over time would be if the FOPA of 1986 was reversed, which I can't see happening anytime soon.
May 16th, 2010 01:56 AM
Class 3 = the SOT for a dealer in NFA firearms.
Title II firearm or NFA firearm: Weapons covered under the NFA of 1934 subject to a making or transfer tax.
There is no license to own one and there is no such thing as a "class 3 license". It's a tax called the Special Occupational Tax and it's $500 yearly in addition to the 01 or 02 dealer FFL. The SOT is a business tax to engage in the business of dealing in NFA weapons, not a personal status and not for personal use.
Low end machine guns are Mac or Uzi and run $3-5 thousand. AK and M16 start at 5 figures and go from there. Full auto wears the novelty after a few magazines. And no there is no such thing as a fully transferable Glock 18. It's impossible. If you want me to explain why, I will. Just ask.
.223 is too much of a pain to reload in bulk and is relatively expensive still. .308 is stupid on full auto unless it's belt fed and then it's expensive and a pain to reload in bulk. Pistol caliber MGs are about the only thing that make sense. Find one or get a registered M16 lower or DIAS and get a 9mm upper. It's blowback, not gas operated so lead is no problem. H&Ks are OK but they are in the same category as AKs. It's a stamped receiver. Difference between the price of an AK and an H&K is because the AK is made by a host of manufactures and the H&K is made by one with the best marketing department in the world (a German stamped rifle is the bees knees, but another stamped rifle made 100 miles away is commie garbage).
There is no $5 part to make your gun go full auto, especially an M16. You will need a full auto bolt carrier plus the full auto fire control group (hammer, trigger, disconnector) AND the DIAS in order for it to go full auto. If a machine shop were stupid enough to make you a DIAS (which is illegal as all get out) it sure as heck wouldn't cost you $5.
My company is a Class 2 SOT, NFA firearm manufacturer. I make machine guns, silencers, and ammunition. Full auto is OK. Currently I have a M16, AK47 machine pistol, couple converted Glock pistols and conversion parts, and various other guns in various stages of manufacture. My M16 cost me about $500 to assemble, the AK is a cheap Draco pistol I converted. The Glock stuff is just some time on the lathe and Bridgeport.
Seeing as I get to "play" with full auto at will as a business, the novelty is callus. I get much more enjoyment out of using a suppressor on a firearm than anything full auto I've built or fired. I'm sure HotGuns can agree with me on that as well. SBR, SBR, and suppressors are about the most practical of the NFA weapons. Unfortunately, MI doesn't allow any of those three for civilians (except C&R SBW on a C&R license, but who wants a 14 inch Marlin 1894 in .25-20??).
07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006
Probably the only home based FFL that doesn't do transfers.
May 16th, 2010 02:40 AM
Well, as part of my job, I got to fire a 1928 Thompson with the 50-round drum, and a .30 cal water-cooled tripod mounted machine gun from the military from Korean War era. They were a hoot to fire, however, reloading the 50 round drum from cans of loose .45 ammo was slow and tedious. The .30 cal machine gun was fun also, but reloading the belt was slow. As I could shoot the Thompson every weekend, it was great, but the novelty wore off quickly. The ammo was free, however, if I had to pay for it at today's prices, I'd only fire it once a year.
FOP Lodge 55, RPOAC, NRA Life Member
One of the keys to happiness is a bad memory
May 17th, 2010 04:29 PM
You can get into a MAC for about 3000. Maybe 6000 for an Uzi or S&W 76. 12 is not bad for an M16 but they go way higher. When you figure that a MAC 10 or M11 in 9mm fires about $500 a minute an SBR or a suppressor looks better and better. Less than 1000 bucks for a centerfire can, way less for a rimfire. Shooting armadillos in your backyard and your neighbor doesn't even notice (priceless).
And FWIW my lawyer and tax lady both agree the trust is the way to go for NFA stuff. My lawyer actually recommends a separate trust for each NFA item. I've heard people argue about the CLEO signature and how to talk them into signing but with the trust option I wouldn't even bother at all.
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