Help me choose my first AR - Page 2

Help me choose my first AR

This is a discussion on Help me choose my first AR within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by OPFOR First, the model the OP is looking at is NOT a gas piston, and this has been pointed out again in ...

View Poll Results: Which AR would be best for me?

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  • LMT MRP CQB

    20 58.82%
  • Colt 6920

    12 35.29%
  • Colt 6940

    2 5.88%
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  1. #16
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    First, the model the OP is looking at is NOT a gas piston, and this has been pointed out again in the thread.

    Second, the gas piston ARs are not necessarily more reliable than the DI ones; this is a point of some serious debate and the issue is far from settled.

    Third, there's nothing "wrong" with Bushmaster - I don't see where anyone has mentioned them at all, much less said that there was anything wrong with them...
    I'd say what's "wrong" with Bushmaster is that you overpay for what you get.

    First, Bushmaster makes their guns out of substandard parts. Cheaper barrel material, improperly cut chambers, unstaked, or improperly staked gas keys, poor bolt material, and commercial specification buffer assemblies, which are weaker than military ones. Combine this with prices that are nearly as much as Colt, and more than some other much higher quality guns, and THAT'S what's wrong with Bushmaster.

    You can buy a Spike's Tactical for under $800 or pin a BCM upper on a S&W lower for $868 and have a far superior carbine to Bushmaster.

    Or, you can buy a Del-Ton kit, and put it on a $100 stripped lower (about 45 min. of unskilled labor) and have a $565 carbine that is just as good as any Bushmaster made.

    It's not about Bushmaster being "bad", it's just about being smart with your money.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    I side with the man who knows more about the weapon than anyone else alive today: C. Reed Knight. He says DI is the way to go. His word is gospel with the AR family.
    I fall into this camp as well, but in the interest of fairness there are knowledgeable folks who believe that the piston design is inherently better. That it may be, for some rifles under some circumstances, but the AR wasn't designed to be a piston gun, and "forcing" it to be one opens up a whole can of engineering issues.

    I've seen some pretty darned impressive piston ARs and some that were "not so much." I think DI is still the way to go and, for the money, it's ABSOLUTELY the way to go...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  3. #18
    New Member Array zombiechief's Avatar
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    Hey guys, forum newbie here but I gotta chime in. I've got a Stag Arms Model M8 and it's a piston gun. I am absolutely convinced the piston is the way of the future for the AR family. After putting over 200 rounds non stop down range I was able to pick up my AR from the upper receiver bare handed! The bolt and receiver were only the slightest bit warm. The barrel singed the hair off my arm tho. The piston set up keeps all the gasses and carbon build-up out of the upper since the gas is ejected at the front sight block instead of at the bolt inside the upper. It keeps the gun from jamming and makes it more reliable. I picked my M8 up new for just under 1200 bux. It comes in a flat-top configuration with Midwest Industries drop sights on the front and rear. It's got a collapsible 6 position stock as well as a 30 round magazine. This is my AR with a tac-lite and red-dot. I also color filled all the roll marks for that custom look.

    Treat every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it or play with it, pee on it and walk away.

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  4. #19
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    No vote from me in this poll. I'm guessing my Bushmaster doesn't even rank. Well, you said it was your first....and limited it to three choices in the poll. I'm a working man like a lot of folks here, and on my fourth Bushmaster rifle for good reasons. I shoot quite a bit with mine.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombiechief View Post
    Hey guys, forum newbie here but I gotta chime in. I've got a Stag Arms Model M8 and it's a piston gun. I am absolutely convinced the piston is the way of the future for the AR family. After putting over 200 rounds non stop down range I was able to pick up my AR from the upper receiver bare handed! The bolt and receiver were only the slightest bit warm. The barrel singed the hair off my arm tho. The piston set up keeps all the gasses and carbon build-up out of the upper since the gas is ejected at the front sight block instead of at the bolt inside the upper. It keeps the gun from jamming and makes it more reliable. I picked my M8 up new for just under 1200 bux. It comes in a flat-top configuration with Midwest Industries drop sights on the front and rear. It's got a collapsible 6 position stock as well as a 30 round magazine. This is my AR with a tac-lite and red-dot. I also color filled all the roll marks for that custom look.
    [IMG]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/damiencovington/totalpackage.jpg[/ IMG]
    [IMG]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/damiencovington/rollmarks2-1.jpg[/ IMG]
    I don't know if I could pick up my DI AR by the upper after 200 rounds, I tend to use the pistol grip.

    I do know how to avoid jamming without resorting to slapping a piston on a rifle not designed for one. It's a pretty big secret, but there are several options to use that I'm gonna let yall in on.







    You didn't hear it from me, but a few ozs of any one of those should keep a quality DI AR running for thousands, even tens of thousands, of rounds with no cleaning.

  6. #21
    Member Array sammage's Avatar
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    ^Good advice right there. Heard this also prevents carrier tilt, and maintains the same level of parts commonality as before. To the OP: you can't go wrong with Colt, BCM and LMT are nice as well.

  7. #22
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombiechief View Post
    Hey guys, forum newbie here but I gotta chime in. I've got a Stag Arms Model M8 and it's a piston gun. I am absolutely convinced the piston is the way of the future for the AR family. After putting over 200 rounds non stop down range I was able to pick up my AR from the upper receiver bare handed! The bolt and receiver were only the slightest bit warm. The barrel singed the hair off my arm tho. The piston set up keeps all the gasses and carbon build-up out of the upper since the gas is ejected at the front sight block instead of at the bolt inside the upper. It keeps the gun from jamming and makes it more reliable. I picked my M8 up new for just under 1200 bux. It comes in a flat-top configuration with Midwest Industries drop sights on the front and rear. It's got a collapsible 6 position stock as well as a 30 round magazine. This is my AR with a tac-lite and red-dot. I also color filled all the roll marks for that custom look.
    I bolded and italicized the above part for "not true-ness". Unless you are shooting 11.5" barrels suppressed, or large amount of full-auto, piston ARs at zero reliability. They actually introduce new failure modes. Oh, and they are logistically unsupported. That means when your toy breaks 10 years from now, it becomes a paperweight.

    Heavier, more complex, and adds nothing to the system. Except weight and unnecessary expense.
    Last edited by 120mm; May 27th, 2010 at 01:57 PM.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    Well, if you're stuck just on those models...I chose the LMT.

    If I was to get serious in the AR platform, and would want to payout on one. I'd go for LMT, DD, Noveske, and BCM.

    OR you could do what I did and get a real rifle and purchase a M1A.

    I just love the .308rnd.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texag View Post
    I don't know if I could pick up my DI AR by the upper after 200 rounds, I tend to use the pistol grip.

    I do know how to avoid jamming without resorting to slapping a piston on a rifle not designed for one. It's a pretty big secret, but there are several options to use that I'm gonna let yall in on.







    You didn't hear it from me, but a few ozs of any one of those should keep a quality DI AR running for thousands, even tens of thousands, of rounds with no cleaning.
    Yep.

    I may--may consider putting a piston on my SBR when I finally get it built later this year...but otherwise, nah.

    They are cool, but they're all non-standard (they all have different designs), and I don't think you really gain anything with them in non-NFA applications.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

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  10. #25
    Member Array NRATodd's Avatar
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    getting off topic peeps....
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  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    I know these are what you want, but I'm just curious why you aren't looking at some other AR's such La Rue, Noveske, etc.........

    I own 4 AR's
    Noveske SBR
    Rockriver (with a24 inch target barrel)
    LMT lower with Spikes .22 upper
    and a I forgot what the 4th lower is but I have a colt 7.62x39mm upper on it.

    All those guns will well outlast me and possible my grandchildren.
    I run the Noveske SBR pretty often and still its ticking like a champ.

    I think my next gun is going to be a Sabre Defence. I know a lot of people don't like DPMS/Bushmaster/etc.......but those guns run if you treat them right, the M&P seem to be really doing well for a base model AR. If money is no object buy what ever you want but I think for what your looking for there are many more options then just 3 differn't AR's. Just my .02 cents take it for what it is worth.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  12. #27
    Member Array NRATodd's Avatar
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    Every time I think "I'll just get a 6920- it'll be fine for what I need" I remember that 5 years from now I'll regret it and want more gun... as they say "the poor man pays twice." I have a wife is not big on me buying guns so even this one AR is pushing the envelope big time!

    So not quite a conclusion but where is where I am at:
    The LMT is got to be more accurate than the 6920
    The 6940 is probally as accurate at the LMT but would require me to modify it becuase I don't like like the sights...
    so that leaves the LMT

    I know everybody keeps telling me not to limit my choices but I had to narrow it down at somepoint...
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  13. #28
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRATodd View Post
    Every time I think "I'll just get a 6920- it'll be fine for what I need" I remember that 5 years from now I'll regret it and want more gun... as they say "the poor man pays twice." I have a wife is not big on me buying guns so even this one AR is pushing the envelope big time!

    So not quite a conclusion but where is where I am at:
    The LMT is got to be more accurate than the 6920
    The 6940 is probally as accurate at the LMT but would require me to modify it becuase I don't like like the sights...
    so that leaves the LMT

    I know everybody keeps telling me not to limit my choices but I had to narrow it down at somepoint...

    If you're so hung up on accuracy why are you looking at uppers with chrome lined barrels? It is extremely unlikely that any of them will do 1 MOA, 1.5-2MOA is far more likely. To get those results with iron sights is another hurdle to overcome.

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