Coulda died at the range today (Niagara Gun Range)

This is a discussion on Coulda died at the range today (Niagara Gun Range) within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So I went to try to get my AR sighted in, and 3...inner city youth come into the range. This particular range rents AK's, AR's, ...

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Thread: Coulda died at the range today (Niagara Gun Range)

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    Member Array tommyp's Avatar
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    Coulda died at the range today (Niagara Gun Range)

    So I went to try to get my AR sighted in, and 3...inner city youth come into the range. This particular range rents AK's, AR's, and pistols (to those licensed). These particular kids rented 2 ak's and the ar. They proceed to set the ammo on the chair behind the 10 stalls, and open it up. One AK gets rested muzzle first on the concrete, balanced against the brick wall. Now I politely suggest they put them on the shelf between stalls. The say thanks they will, and continue on with their dumb antics. In between my 3 round sets, I look back, 2 guns moved to the stalls, and buddy #3 strolls in with the other AK. Sets his ammo down like his friends on the chair behind the stalls, and proceeds to load a clip. Then, in a stroke of genius, puts it in the gun, and chambers a round. Luckily I saw these goings on, and caught him as he was about to set the thing down and balance it against the wall like his friends. I tell him to put the thing between the stalls if it's loaded, which he does. Then, to no surprise, they shoot like all their friends that you see on cops. Shooting the AK from the hip and not aiming, and holding the AK chambered for 22 out in front of them one handed like thugs. Needles to say, I fled the range, fearing for my safety. NO one from the range monitoring safety, nor seeming to care when I complained on my way out. Niagara gun range - epic fail. You suck, and just lost a couple customers.
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I love living where there are no "urban utes".
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    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Sounds like pure stupidity. How old were these buddys? Sounds like they couldn't have been old enough to be handling weapons. Doesn't the place have an age requirement?
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    That's why I don''t go to public ranges anymore...too many idiots.
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    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    That's the range I frequent whenever I can't get on the work range. It's family owned and operated (but they have some big time government contracts) and all the times I've been there I have never seen anyone actually monitor the range. They do have cameras but what good does that do when your office is tucked away on the other side of the building?
    I always try to go early in morning nowadays to avoid stupid people like this and if I see some of them coming in I pack up and get the hell out!!
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    Member Array tommyp's Avatar
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    Seemed at least one would have been 18. Over 21 was questionable. Diablo - yea, I know it's family owned and operated, and they have gov't contracts - heard the same too. The kids were actually well mannered and inquisitive - one asked what I was shooting, if it was mine. He mentioned they rented the range ones. Shockingly decently spoken. Just completely void of any safety training with firearms. I'm shocked the one shooting from the hip didn't shoot the shelf in the stall. Part was the fault of the kids for not knowing better, but more so, for the range for not monitoring it's patrons and having a safety officer on duty.

    I need to join a private range. Any suggestions WNY ' ers? I like to shoot trap, got my AR, and am about a month away from my pistol permit. Diablo - are you a cop? Where do you work that there's a "work range?"

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyp View Post
    NO one from the range monitoring safety, nor seeming to care when I complained on my way out. Niagara gun range - epic fail. You suck, and just lost a couple customers.
    Not having range officers witnessing things like this depends on the organization at the given range. However, "not seeming to care" when learning of such egregious disregard for common safety procedures speaks volumes about the willingness of that organization's staff to protect life, eject those with reckless disregard for it. No excuse for not caring once it's known. Though, uncertain whether this was a clerk/staffer, or management. Am assuming a staffer.

    If the range's management also is disregarding that responsibility, then IMO you did right in leaving the membership of the range.
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    It sadens me what is not being taught to the younger generation of men and women that will eventually take over our country. Respect is no longer earned, morals are not taught by parents and everyone thinks they are entitled to the hard fought freedoms of our fathers and grandfathers.
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    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickmn50 View Post
    It sadens me what is not being taught to the younger generation of men and women that will eventually take over our country. Respect is no longer earned, morals are not taught by parents and everyone thinks they are entitled to the hard fought freedoms of our fathers and grandfathers.
    Now you know that you do not throw a bag of apples out or a bushel of corn because one of them had mold growing on it.... right?

    Those kids should have been schooled by the local safety aware citizens at the range. No offense but instead of correcting them with knowledge and upholding their love to shoot with some tactical sense you just ran away in fear of your own life.

    Not that you did wrong, in fact probably the smart thing, however it is our fault, yes we the Americans who know what firearms really mean and really serve, we just run away and post on forums like this complaining to like minded people.

    I guess my being in the military attributes to the instructor in my blood.

    Anyways I am very thankful you lived and very thankful you shared your experience with us all. I do NOT like to attend public ranges except when there are no one there but me and maybe one other person at the far end.

    I had enough muzzle (badwordhere'ing) the back of my head from mainline sailors when I was on a destroyer, moving on to NAVSPECWAR later in my service really showed that people there cared and knew how to handle firearms even from the beginning of training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I love living where there are no "urban utes".
    what'sa ute?

    I've had a few get my attention at the range I frequent lately. But only members are allowed to shoot long guns, not hourly customers.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    Those kids should have been schooled by the local safety aware citizens at the range. No offense but instead of correcting them with knowledge and upholding their love to shoot with some tactical sense you just ran away in fear of your own life.
    Perhaps. I've experience both types of people: (a) those who will tolerate a bit of light-handed schooling; and (b) those who get violently angry when such a thing is brought up. Depending on the situation and circumstances (ie, numbers of people, thuggish nature, etc), it might well have not been a situation conducive to a safety education at that moment. The OP might know. But then, very likely not, since he didn't know them. Point is, it can be risky, depending.

    At my (members-only) range, they're adamant about allowing anyone on the open/outdoor/action (IPSC-style) range of bays without first having gone through the one-day group introduction to basic IPSC-style range activities and how to safely manage them. ONLY then will they issue a stamp for the card that allows a member to use that part of the range. For anyone that has done IPSC type competitions previously, it's a bit slow, sure. But it ensures everyone is crystal clear on the rules, the absolute ejection that's in store for anyone caught abusing the rules and endangering others, and the responsibility all capable members have to work with newbies to assist whenever safety issues arise. It's a system that seems to work very well, at this club. I don't know if a public range or other ranges would have the same degree of success. Perhaps.
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    Member Array tommyp's Avatar
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    Tango, if you'd have actually read my initial post, you'd have saw that I did try to correct and teach them, twice actually, about safety. Keeping their weapons in the stalls pointing down range, as well as not loading them out of the stalls. It went in one ear and out the other. Try reading the post and bragging a little less about your military upbringing before you criticize. After I tried twice to help make them a bit more safe, I ran before I ended up with a round in me.

    ccw - the people that own it also run it - it was the owners wife i complained to. She even admitted her husband should be monitoring back there (the range), but he was working on some other part of their building. And I agree with you - I didn't work there, I had no authority there. There's a delicate balance to be kept when trying to politely point out the error of someones ways - especially those you don't know around fire arms. Didn't wanna piss anyone off.
    Last edited by tommyp; August 8th, 2010 at 12:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    Now you know that you do not throw a bag of apples out or a bushel of corn because one of them had mold growing on it.... right?

    Those kids should have been schooled by the local safety aware citizens at the range. No offense but instead of correcting them with knowledge and upholding their love to shoot with some tactical sense you just ran away in fear of your own life.

    Not that you did wrong, in fact probably the smart thing, however it is our fault, yes we the Americans who know what firearms really mean and really serve, we just run away and post on forums like this complaining to like minded people.I guess my being in the military attributes to the instructor in my blood.

    Anyways I am very thankful you lived and very thankful you shared your experience with us all. I do NOT like to attend public ranges except when there are no one there but me and maybe one other person at the far end.
    I had enough muzzle (badwordhere'ing) the back of my head from mainline sailors when I was on a destroyer, moving on to NAVSPECWAR later in my service really showed that people there cared and knew how to handle firearms even from the beginning of training.

    tommyp
    ^^^^^^^^^^IN bold above^^^^

    I believe tangoseal was, for the most part siding with you in what transpired


    ^^^^^Underlined above^^^^^^^^^

    I took his statement to be a broad general statement for ALL of us the majority of the time, not a direct insult or attack at you.

    Also, I didn't take his referencing his military background as grandstanding or bragging, just that it was a piece of insight from that perspective, in a sense that even in the military you have eggheads who have a disregard for safety .
    Hopefully this is perhaps the way he intended, and you may have misinterpreted it.



    [QUOTE=tommyp;1727512]Tango, if you'd have actually read my initial post, you'd have saw that I did try to correct and teach them, twice actually, about safety. Keeping their weapons in the stalls pointing down range, as well as not loading them out of the stalls. It went in one ear and out the other. Try reading the post and bragging a little less about your military upbringing before you criticize. After I tried twice to help make them a bit more safe, I ran before I ended up with a round in me.




    In any case, you did what most would have in the moment, and for that I for one do not fault you.


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    Member Array tommyp's Avatar
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    Meant no harm - just seemed like an attack and a bit insulting towards me. It's not my job, nor responsibility to educate people who know nothing about safety. However, as a responsible enthusiast I took it upon myself to make a couple of suggestions to these kids to teach them to be a bit safer, both for me, and for the people there next time they happen to visit a range. I don't wanna start a flame war - just wanted to remind everyone to keep their heads about them at a range, and that this one in particular didn't seem to be to serious about patron safety.

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