Bushmaster SuperLight Carbine with Red Dot - Carbon 15 - Page 4

Bushmaster SuperLight Carbine with Red Dot - Carbon 15

This is a discussion on Bushmaster SuperLight Carbine with Red Dot - Carbon 15 within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I got the Bushmaster carbon light this week i haven't fired it yet and i have a red dot on it. This is my first ...

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Thread: Bushmaster SuperLight Carbine with Red Dot - Carbon 15

  1. #46
    Member Array jerry12's Avatar
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    I got the Bushmaster carbon light this week i haven't fired it yet and i have a red dot on it. This is my first AR 15 or what ever you call it. When i was in the Army Nation Guard from 1969 to 1975 we had colt M16 and that is the reason i got the AR 15. I should have done my home work before i got it & if i had i probably would have gotten a step up model but i assume it was in the class as the Colt M16 that i used in the Military but i know now that it is a lesser grade of gun from what i have been reading here and other forums.
    Jerry

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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry12 View Post
    I got the Bushmaster carbon light this week i haven't fired it yet and i have a red dot on it. This is my first AR 15 or what ever you call it. When i was in the Army Nation Guard from 1969 to 1975 we had colt M16 and that is the reason i got the AR 15. I should have done my home work before i got it & if i had i probably would have gotten a step up model but i assume it was in the class as the Colt M16 that i used in the Military but i know now that it is a lesser grade of gun from what i have been reading here and other forums.
    Congratulations on the new Bushmaster. I picked up a Patrolman's Carbine earlier in the month. It's my first Bushmaster and my first AR platform also. I don't plan to go to war with it, so I think it will fit my needs perfectly and the price was right. If the military wants me to serve again at age 64, hopefully they will be generous enough to issue me a weapon that is up to mil specs.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  3. #48
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    Talking Bustmaster Carbon

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    Congratulations on the new Bushmaster. I picked up a Patrolman's Carbine earlier in the month. It's my first Bushmaster and my first AR platform also. I don't plan to go to war with it, so I think it will fit my needs perfectly and the price was right. If the military wants me to serve at age 64, hopefully they will be generous enough to issue me a weapon that is up to mil specs.
    You and i both have seen our best fighting day's so now i will have to just shoot my way out of trouble. lol
    Jerry

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  4. #49
    army_mp
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    No, the Bushmaster is not. Wrong kind of barrel steel, wrong twist barrel, undercut chambers (.223 instead of 5.56, no matter what is engraved on the barrel) wrong kind of steel in the bolt, Bolt not HPT/MPI'd, Gas key incorrectly staked, if staked at all, civilian instead of military recoil tube made of wrong material, unstaked castle nut.

    In fact, very little of the Bushmaster is "milspec".

    At best they are a decent Hobby Gun. Period. Will not stand up to anything close to heavy use.

    I had the "honor" of carrying a Bushmaster POS carbine into combat last year as part of the Department of State's Counter-Narcotics efforts. Out of 150 guns, we had 50 guns down, being repaired at any one time. They are just not good enough for heavy use.
    OK Bushmaster a POS carbine? ask damn near any soldier that has been in a heavy fire fight with the COLT I say again COLT M4 carbine they will tell you hands down that there weapon is a POS. I personally own 2 of what you call Bushmaster POS's I can say this i will take either one of those rifles into combat any day of the week. Yes i have served my country and still do to this day I have 12 years in the US ARMY and have served in multiple combat tours from Iraq to Afghanistan guess what the Colt is a POS. Even with regular weapons maintenance guess what the COLT is still a POS. You said you was with the NARC unit in Afghanistan right? a civilian if u served you country ok that is great and thank you for your service. But guess what most of the problems with any rifle yes is going to be a malfunction caused by one of three things 1) magazine 2) you ass hasn't cleaned you rifle 3) worn out parts that need replacement. So don's set there and try to say oh we had 150 weapons and we had 50 weapons down being repaired at one time! Seems to me sir your unit didn't know how to take care of your weapons just saying!!!!

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by army_mp View Post
    OK Bushmaster a POS carbine? ask damn near any soldier that has been in a heavy fire fight with the COLT I say again COLT M4 carbine they will tell you hands down that there weapon is a POS. I personally own 2 of what you call Bushmaster POS's I can say this i will take either one of those rifles into combat any day of the week. Yes i have served my country and still do to this day I have 12 years in the US ARMY and have served in multiple combat tours from Iraq to Afghanistan guess what the Colt is a POS. Even with regular weapons maintenance guess what the COLT is still a POS. You said you was with the NARC unit in Afghanistan right? a civilian if u served you country ok that is great and thank you for your service. But guess what most of the problems with any rifle yes is going to be a malfunction caused by one of three things 1) magazine 2) you ass hasn't cleaned you rifle 3) worn out parts that need replacement. So don's set there and try to say oh we had 150 weapons and we had 50 weapons down being repaired at one time! Seems to me sir your unit didn't know how to take care of your weapons just saying!!!!
    Welcome to DC mister. We play nice here. If you want to stick around you'll need to tone it down a bit.
    SIGguy229 likes this.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I'm not even responding. What a joke. Head over to Lightfighter or SOCNET and tell them that gem!

    Look at his location! Give me a break! I see a total troll.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  7. #52
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    What an interesting thread! I own two AR's, a Colt CAR Sporter with a pencil barrel and a Colt LE model. I have never fired a shot in anger, never been fired
    upon, (although cans, bottles and derelict pieces of trash quake at my presence!). I shoot a few hundred rounds a year through each of them and have never had a problem. For my purposes, a BM would work just fine. If that is your shooting habit, then the BM is a good gun for you. But I'm glad I have Colts.

  8. #53
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    I was thinking of buying the carbon 15 myself and stumbled on this thred. I haven't learned too much about the gun but i have been reminded how rude some people can be.

  9. #54
    RKM
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    Quote Originally Posted by army_mp View Post
    OK Bushmaster a POS carbine? ask damn near any soldier that has been in a heavy fire fight with the COLT I say again COLT M4 carbine they will tell you hands down that there weapon is a POS. I personally own 2 of what you call Bushmaster POS's I can say this i will take either one of those rifles into combat any day of the week. Yes i have served my country and still do to this day I have 12 years in the US ARMY and have served in multiple combat tours from Iraq to Afghanistan guess what the Colt is a POS. Even with regular weapons maintenance guess what the COLT is still a POS. You said you was with the NARC unit in Afghanistan right? a civilian if u served you country ok that is great and thank you for your service. But guess what most of the problems with any rifle yes is going to be a malfunction caused by one of three things 1) magazine 2) you ass hasn't cleaned you rifle 3) worn out parts that need replacement. So don's set there and try to say oh we had 150 weapons and we had 50 weapons down being repaired at one time! Seems to me sir your unit didn't know how to take care of your weapons just saying!!!!
    Whoa calm down. I don't think anybody is against Bushmaster, at least I'm not. I'd gladly own a Bushmaster. Most of the Colt's that are issued have been beat and used to death buy various soldiers and probably maintained and serviced very little. Your Bushmaster is (I'm guessing) lightly used in comparison to military issued M4's. I'm sure if they issued Bushmasters and you had a personal Colt, your opinion might be the exact opposite. And I've never been there, but I'm assuming the environment isn't easy on ANY AR style rifle. I don't think it's the brand of rifle, but more so how they're being used that is providing the results you're getting.

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I don't believe his results. Most of the people I work with and shoot with are military and most were perfectly happy with their rifles. But.... They also know how to use and maintain them.

    EDIT - actually, to be quite honest, I don't believe he is who he says he is. I think he's just an offended Bushmaster owner. Well, that's all he is to me regardless. And for the record, being an MP or general military means NOTHING when it comes to weapons knowledge.

    He was trolling and I'm sure he won't be back. He was Googling Bushmaster, saw this thread, signed up and threw his hissy fit.

    One hour of searching Lightfighter or SOCNET forum (you know, Special Operations Community network forum) will tell you all you need to know about how well regarded the m4 is, as well as Colt, and the only times under normal fighting conditions these weapons run fine and the ones you see fail are in tue hands of people with no respect for their weapons and have no clue how to handle simple malfunctions.

    It'll also tell you about how well certain brands are regarded.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  11. #56
    RKM
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    I have zero military experience. So MY personal opinion about Colt M4's in combat don't matter. My sisters husband served two torus in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Never herd a single complaint about his M4. Though the complaints I do hear on the interwebs, IMO is probably due to improperly maintained weapons or just rifles that need replaced and are worn out. I can say, if I were to be in battle (I'd be too scared to be in a real battle, firefights only look fun on TV) I'd take a Colt over a Bushmaster, but I still wouldn't be bothered one tiny bit by owning a Bushmaster as a civilian for range use and self defense.

  12. #57
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    Just a few thoughts about what I have read on this thread. As far as "mil-spec" is concerned it is true that what the requirements of most items for the military purchases are not secret as they have to tell companies what the MINIMUM requirements are for companies to submit bids and prototype models, however it sometimes is possible that a given companies production techniques might be proprietary and therefore when someone goes snooping around to find out details on things they could run into some type of "It's classified, I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you" line but the same thing happens when you try to find out what the "secret" recipe for Coke is, when the ingredients are right on the can for all to see, it's just a matter of figuring out in what exact proportions and maybe some other tricks in the production process. Also Bushmaster were provided to the US military during the 1st gulf war when there was a shortage of M4's from colt, so that would seem to me that Bushmaster would know what it takes to make a "milspec" gun. Now as far as all the stuff about this brand vs. that brand, it sort of reminds me about people arguing about chevy vs. ford vs dodge vs rice burners etc. My viewpoint is from someone that grew up shooting and hunting and I served 4 years in the U.S. Army infantry, and 8 years in law enforcement. I was not, currently am not and never will claim to be some super high speed legendary operator that did more than anybody else, and as a matter of fact have really not done much shooting in the last 5 or 6 years, but am planning on doing a bit more and started doing a bit of research on the Bushmasters and accessories for ar's as my local walmart carries the Bushmaster M4a3for $780. My familiarity with the black rifle apart from ones i've looked at in stores and at gun shows is limited to the ones I used in the army, and one Les Baer I owned for about 2 years before I had to sell it cause I needed some quick cash. Of course there is also a lot of reading I have done on various ar rifles as well, and while doing some research on the bushmaster it turns out (at least according to a lot of people posting on various firearms discussion forums) that the Les Baer I owned was a POS gun as well. Having read that I came to realize I am not going to believe much of what anyone says about the bushmaster or any other gun, unless they have some type of reliable source material to point me too that the rifle is crap. I understand everyone has a bad experience with a product now and then, but unless there is some type of CONSISTENT issue with a product, I am not going to dam it for an occasional lemon in a barrel of oranges. I know my Les Baer was probably the finest breed of AR i've ever even handled, and firing it was a joy. Would it be the ideal for taking into actual combat, not really, but I could do a LOT worse. Also everyone keeps saying they can get MUCH better guns at MUCH lower prices, i've only seen a few people ever provide links to these "deals" and they are usually either "out of stock" or they are similarly priced BEFORE things like shipping and paying someone with an FFL their fee to receive the gun for you. I also remember a few years back when I was still shooting somewhat regularly and reading gun mags often that bushmaster were thought of as a great gun. Ok, that's enough of my rant for now, or at least that's all I can think of. Flame away.

  13. #58
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    I started reading the above post but then I stopped. My eyes had a cramp.
    SIGguy229, Sticks, Scudda and 1 others like this.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11C1P View Post
    Just a few thoughts about what I have read on this thread. As far as "mil-spec" is concerned it is true that what the requirements of most items for the military purchases are not secret as they have to tell companies what the MINIMUM requirements are for companies to submit bids and prototype models, however it sometimes is possible that a given companies production techniques might be proprietary and therefore when someone goes snooping around to find out details on things they could run into some type of "It's classified, I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you" line but the same thing happens when you try to find out what the "secret" recipe for Coke is, when the ingredients are right on the can for all to see, it's just a matter of figuring out in what exact proportions and maybe some other tricks in the production process. Also Bushmaster were provided to the US military during the 1st gulf war when there was a shortage of M4's from colt, so that would seem to me that Bushmaster would know what it takes to make a "milspec" gun. Now as far as all the stuff about this brand vs. that brand, it sort of reminds me about people arguing about chevy vs. ford vs dodge vs rice burners etc. My viewpoint is from someone that grew up shooting and hunting and I served 4 years in the U.S. Army infantry, and 8 years in law enforcement. I was not, currently am not and never will claim to be some super high speed legendary operator that did more than anybody else, and as a matter of fact have really not done much shooting in the last 5 or 6 years, but am planning on doing a bit more and started doing a bit of research on the Bushmasters and accessories for ar's as my local walmart carries the Bushmaster M4a3for $780. My familiarity with the black rifle apart from ones i've looked at in stores and at gun shows is limited to the ones I used in the army, and one Les Baer I owned for about 2 years before I had to sell it cause I needed some quick cash. Of course there is also a lot of reading I have done on various ar rifles as well, and while doing some research on the bushmaster it turns out (at least according to a lot of people posting on various firearms discussion forums) that the Les Baer I owned was a POS gun as well. Having read that I came to realize I am not going to believe much of what anyone says about the bushmaster or any other gun, unless they have some type of reliable source material to point me too that the rifle is crap. I understand everyone has a bad experience with a product now and then, but unless there is some type of CONSISTENT issue with a product, I am not going to dam it for an occasional lemon in a barrel of oranges. I know my Les Baer was probably the finest breed of AR i've ever even handled, and firing it was a joy. Would it be the ideal for taking into actual combat, not really, but I could do a LOT worse. Also everyone keeps saying they can get MUCH better guns at MUCH lower prices, i've only seen a few people ever provide links to these "deals" and they are usually either "out of stock" or they are similarly priced BEFORE things like shipping and paying someone with an FFL their fee to receive the gun for you. I also remember a few years back when I was still shooting somewhat regularly and reading gun mags often that bushmaster were thought of as a great gun. Ok, that's enough of my rant for now, or at least that's all I can think of. Flame away.
    The reliable info you seek can be found in an abundance of first hand knowledge on m4carbne.net. I've also posted my experiences with Bushmaster. The other reliable info you asked for can easily be found by simply comparing the cmpnents used by Bushmaster, then those used by Colt, BCM, etc. It's not hard to understand, Bushmaster uses cheaper components and sells their rifles for the same price, or very similar.

    Why anyone would buy a Bushmaster for $800 plus tax when they could buy a Colt 6920 for $933 from G&R without tax as long as you don't live in Ohio is confusing to me. The only reasons I can think of would be that you can't afford the $100 difference, in which case you won't be able to shoot the rifle anyway, so it doesn't matter what you buy. Two, the buyer have no clue about the quality differences and haven't done your research. Three, the buyer needs instant gratification and would rather buy so-so today than wait for quality tomorrow. Four, the buyer shoots so little or only plink from a bench that it really doesn't matter.

    Now, and I don't understand how many times this has to be said, but if your are buying a rifle to defend your life, whether for home defense or law enforcement use, the why the heck would you ever buy something that's just ok? I wouldn't even buy second best if I was defending my life with it, let alone a commercial grade rifle. If I already owned one before I knew better, no big deal, I can bring it up to speed with $150 and some time. Now, if you come here saying here's no difference in quality, then you clearly do not understand what goes into making a rifle reliable and durable.

    Ignorance is often the culprit unfortunately as many just don't want to understand or won't take the time to research it. Keep in mind that in the past ten years, Bushmaster has consistently become less of a quality rifle. If you owned one 10 years, buying one today will not be the same experience.

    Colt vs Bushmaster is in no way Ford vs Chevy. Colt vs BCM is Ford vs Chevy. Colt vs Bushmaster is closer to Mercedes vs an older MG, except the Mercedes is priced at $67,500 and the MG is priced at $62,500. Which is a realistic price comparison seeing as a Colt is less than 10% more for a similarly equipped Bushmaster.

    I just don't understand how others don't get it! If you saw a Kimber with MIM parts and a Springfield with forged parts, both priced at $1,150, which would you buy? According to some people, they'd buy the Kimber with lesser quality parts because it's almost as good as and since they're not fighting a war with it, it doesn't matter.. Silliness.

    There's nothing wrong with wanting to buy the very slightly cheaper Bushmaster if you really don't shoot enough for it to matter. But, there is something wrong with not being willing to see the difference.

    Saying this, "I know there's a better chance of parts breakage with the Bushmaster and their customer service isn't as good as some others, but I shoot so little that I really don't mind" gets you a whole lot more respect than "all these guys that have owned both and say the Bushmaster isn't as good have no clue what they're talking about. There's no difference in quality between the cheap parts Bushmaster uses and the quality parts Colt uses. Just because the gas ports are 20% larger, chambers are often too tight, they use carbine buffers and their materials are a couple grades lower doesn't mean it'll be less reliable or durable!" I forgot to throw in the "Rambo" comments that are often thrown at guys that only buy quality, but you should see what I'm getting at.

    Here's a link too of those mythical deals - http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...ction&key=6920
    SIGguy229 likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #60
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    Here's a current thread on m4carbine where a guy asked what happened since Bushmaster used to be recommended but now everyone says to avoid them. A think a large number of people that think Bushmasters are "as good as" are still living in the 90's when it comes to ARs when major game changing manufacturers like BCM, Daniel Defense, Noveske, KAC, etc., either weren't around or weren't in the civilian market. Colt, at that time, didn't have the civilian presence it does now either as well as some of the silliness they did at the time.

    http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95385
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; December 24th, 2011 at 06:16 PM. Reason: Forgot the link
    SIGguy229 likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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