This is a discussion on Defense Shotgun , Semi or Pump, Rem or Moss? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by GM Why do some people appear to think that Massadís words are the only right? He is a very skilled man, but ...
Over the years I can't remember a single failure to feed or eject - or any other failure for that matter. My pump has many tens of thousands of rounds through it. I am sure my friend with the automatic has put more rounds down range than I have so his gun's issues are not training related.
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"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.
I made my decision. I ordered the 870P today and for a decent price I think, $539.00. The only thing is I don't know when I will get it, but they didn't require any deposit on it because they said " that is something that they would order anyway."
They had a 930 SPX in stock , I had a hard time not leaving with it.
What made the difference for you, between those two?
Trust in God and keep your powder dry
"A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source
Congrats! IMO you made the right decision.
"The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"
The reasons I chose the 870P are, I know it's is a high quality firearm and I took the advice off the majority here. It's going to be in some dirty dusty conditions, while I am on the tractor, so I agree that it will be more reliable than a semi.
I started thinking about a defense shotgun because my GF lives on about 10 acres, so when I am out doing yard work and cutting the grass I wanted something more than a handgun and there have been alot of kick the door in home invasions in my area.
Also the advice of Sixto and Ram Rod goes a long way with me,( not that everyones advice doesn't ) I agree with alot they say .
The reason I chose the 870P over the 590A1 was I wanted a 18.5" barrel and I could get the 870P with the 2 shot ext. and it seams to be more acc. for the 870.
Fired 80 rds. of buckshot loads my Mossberg 590 at the C2 Shooting Range in the Pungo area on VA Beach this morning w/ my father. As always, the shotgun performed great and I made tight groups with the first 20 rds. of Federal Tactical 00 Buck at both 15 and 25 yds., standing, squatting, and kneeling. I fired the first 40, then my dad did his last 40 rds. He missed the first 2 rounds at first. After that, he was making some hits to the lower left side. I then advised him to adjust a little higher and to the right. It became clockwork after that and he was making hits toward center mass (he started smiling too). Although he was slow at first, he also became familiar with both admin. and speedloading. He shot both standing and kneeling but chose to shoot 15 yds. as a start since it is his first time shooting with a shotgun. After we got home and had lunch, we also did dry fire drills w/ Azoom inert cartridges using point shooting from the chest while standing, kneeling, and squatting. After that, we saw shotgun training DVDs from Lenny Magill, Louis Awerbuck, and Gunsite, which taught me supplemental techniques added to my shotgun training received from Navy Law Enforcement/Security and Blackwater (now USA) Training Center. When my dad first saw me demonstrated and shoot my first 40 rounds from my 590, he was also blown away with my technique and performance, saying that I am very professional and quick with the shotgun. Althought humbling to receive those compliments from his and another shooter nearby, I told him that there are much better shooters than me and that is why I practice. I showed him some DVD footages of John Shaw and Mid-South Training Institute to let him know where I was coming from. Now, that's mind-blowing.
I a big fan of the Benelli M1 Super 90 Tactical Shotgun (semi automatic). The M3 is nice but don't see the need for it. You are going to pay a bit more but you will get a great shotgun. Used the M1 super 90 for year on the job (LEO) and would never go back to and 870, in fact we replaced all the 870's with Benelli's.
If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
- Zen Saying
I'm partial to Remington myself.
"There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition
I had ambitions of buying a Benelli Super 90 back then. But once I joined the military and got trained and qualified with the Mossberg 500s, I narrowed it down to either owning a Mossberg or a Remington 870. By chance, I ended up with the Mossberg 590, which is similar to the 500. Nothing comes simpler than a Mossy, JMHO.
The Benelli M3 has a selector ring that when twisted changes it from semi auto to pump action.
I don't have any trigger time with the Benelli M3 other then armorer training. As stated all ours were M1 Super 90. The M3 is a very good shotgun and if I found one for the price of the M1 I would buy it. But if you fine a M3 your going to pay quit a bit more for it. One of the reasons for the use of the M3 in Military and LEO is the use of breaching and gas round are low power and have problems cycling. I for one did not have any issues with this and trained to cycle the bolt if needed (good clearing and stoppage drills).
I've heavily used both pumps and semis for hunting in horrid conditions. Never had a jam with either. Used Win 1200 and Rem 1100 with factory shells and reloads. I'd use either as a HD firearm without hesitation. Forced to choose, I'd take the 1100 semi over the pump (although I can fire either just as fast). I don't know where the "unreliable semi" comes from, but I've never known one.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." Eccl. 10:2
I've only seen 1 guy mention the Saiga 12, which is what i have had my eye for a short while. does anybody know some pros/cons on the Saiga line?