Remington 700 under fire at CNBC(merged)

Remington 700 under fire at CNBC(merged)

This is a discussion on Remington 700 under fire at CNBC(merged) within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; http://www.cnbc.com/id/39418714 CNBC is airing a 1 hour documentary on the Remington 700 and lawsuits over accidental firing, Oct 20 10pm ET I recall hearing this ...

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Thread: Remington 700 under fire at CNBC(merged)

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Remington 700 under fire at CNBC(merged)

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/39418714

    CNBC is airing a 1 hour documentary on the Remington 700 and lawsuits over accidental firing, Oct 20 10pm ET I recall hearing this in the news a while back, and it's probably been discussed on Internet forums many times before.

    I got a model 700 in 6mm when I was 13 or 14 in 1974 or 1975. I will never forget aiming at a deer, reaching for the safety, and the gun firing. Fortunately, I was just embarrassed at missing the deer. The men assured me I must have had my finger on the trigger, but I didn't. I will always believe the gun malfunctioned. I look forward to seeing this.


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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I sen my .308 back for this and they repaired it.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    I read that link today RamRod, and I finally felt vindicated after all these years. I also read a CBS report today from 2001, so I guess this is really old news. Still I also read skeptics denying this today. Is this a recognized failure mode, or is this more of a debatable issue?

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I have never actually heard much about this until it was brought up here. Never heard of any issues with them in service, of course those were reworked specifically for the military. I currently own a Remington 700VLS in 22-250 and I am familiar with the part of the article that describes the mechanism for firing (which is the connector) and I am most familiar with the Glock's design of the connector and how it works with the engagement surfaces and acceptable tolerances. Personally, I couldn't say (and not here to debate the issue either), if this would actually be a defect. I would however say that with this somewhat similar connector system in a bolt action rifle (in my opinion), that it's less likely to be maintained or inspected over a period of time compared to a pistol one can break down to every last component with their bare hands and a simple punch and no specialty tools. The recoil of a large caliber center fire rifle and the mechanics of a semi-auto pistol concerning where energy and forces are exerted on the mechanisms involved within the particular firearm are totally different. I'm not an engineer even though I'd like to be, but I could see the possibility of a connector type firing mechanism in a bolt action rifle taking more wear and more need for maintaining over a period of time. I'm also familiar with tight tolerances in the machining process and how important they are. A good diagram and how the parts actually interact with each other is hard to find. Numrich lists the connector part (#58) for $8.25. Not sure what other parts may be involved in order to make factory specs, but this sort of deal is usually left for the gunsmith or factory to fix, and not the common user. I've never had the need to get into my Rem 700 deeper than the bolt and internals. Now I might feel the need to check things out on my own. I'm just sayin'. My excerpt from the article in the link provided:


    1. Remington’s trigger mechanism uses an internal component called a “connector” – a design component not used by any other rifle manufacturer. The connector floats on top of the trigger body inside of the gun, but is not physically bound to the trigger in any way other than tension from a spring. When the trigger is pulled, the connecter is pushed forward by the trigger, allowing the sear to fall and fire the rifle.

    2. The proper position of the connector under the sear is an overlap of only 25/1000ths of an inch, but because the connector is not bound to the trigger, the connector separates from the trigger body when the rifle is fired and creates a gap between the two parts.

    3. Any dirt, debris or manufacturing scrap can then become lodged in the space created between the connector and the trigger, preventing the connector from returning to its original position.

    4. Remington’s defective fire control could have been redesigned to eliminate the harm or danger very inexpensively. There is no valid engineering reason why the successfully utilized connectorless designs could not have been used by Remington in its Model 700 and 710.

    5. In fact, Remington has recently done just that for the Model 700 with a newly designed trigger, the X-Mark Pro. That design, which eliminates the connector, was completed in 2002. However, Remington chose to continue with its prior unsafe design for financial reasons, never warning the public. Even today, Remington installs the new fire control into some but not all of its bolt-action rifles, leaving many users at risk with the old and defective design.

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    My '75 700 ADL has never done this. Now you've got me wondering. Is there any recall/upgrade in the works?
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    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Well, I just watched the show. They interviewed the man Walker that designed the trigger mechanism. He knew there was a theoretical problem, and had designed a fix, in like 1946. Would have cost $.05 per gun. He commented on manufacturing tolerances and inspections. That's always the difference between theory and reality. It's hard to argue with the man that designed it.

    I'll never know with 100% certainty that I didn't touch the trigger when I flipped the safety off. The gun was almost new at the time, and it hasn't been fired in over 30 years. I can't reproduce any hint of a problem today. All it cost me was some embarrassment and the meat of a good deer. What worries me is that the gun may be around for a long long time, long after I'm gone. I was only 13 or 14 at the time, but I'll never believe I pulled the trigger.

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    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    For those who missed this TV program, here is a link to text, photos, and video clips from the show:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/39554936/

    This report on MSNBC has more text, and another video clip from the show:

    http://207.46.245.33/id/39762676

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    Senior Member Array TomEgun's Avatar
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    I watched it scarey stuff wish they would recall Ive got a 710 has anyone seen a trigger replacement?
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    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Newer Remington 700 Rifles now have the Mark X trigger, which is totally safe, and does not have this issue, as the show pointed out. So current production guns are not affected by this at all.

    I don't know what type of trigger is in the model 710.

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    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    I am very disappointed in Remington's response to this obvious problem. The corporate mind set is "it's cheaper to pay a law suite than to fix the problem"

    This is very bad. Now i see Cerberus owns Remington and they de-listed the stock.
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    I have recently been considering purchasing a Remington 700 and watched the show last night. Twice. After seeing that, I am having second thoughts! If I do buy a 700, I intend to make sure it has the X-Mark Pro trigger! As they said in the show, Remington is still selling the OLD style trigger on some models, as well as the newer style. I've always liked Remington firearms, but that show has definately changed my impression of the company a bit! And NOT favorably!
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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I think the savages are better anyway, you can replace barrels with ease and they are upgradeable as well. I don't need to buy things because specops or swat uses them.

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    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Can the new trigger assembly be put on Model 700 manufactured in 1989?
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    Member Array Mikhail's Avatar
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    Well I saw the show and the clip of the officers on TFL showing what can happen is shocking. The army had said 2 out of 20 rounds does this, it makes you wonder if good students had failed shooting tests due to this.

    Btw Remington has made rebuttal videos on youtube.

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