New "sniper-rifle"

New "sniper-rifle"

This is a discussion on New "sniper-rifle" within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I am putting together a new rifle and have a few questions just wanting to see what the "norm" is. The Gun in question is ...

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Dragman's Avatar
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    New "sniper-rifle"

    I am putting together a new rifle and have a few questions just wanting to see what the "norm" is.
    The Gun in question is a remington 700 sps Varmint 243win. 26" bull barrel with a 1-9 1/8th twist.
    I figure the best bullet weight is gonna be 95-105 grains with a slower burning powder.
    Now my question is: What length and kind of bipod is the norm??
    Would you consider weighing down the stock to eliminate the rest of the recoil if the weight of the gun doesn't matter to you.
    I am not 100% on glass yet.
    Mil dots are a must as I wanna shoot ground hogs at over 500yards (not really sure at what max distance I will be able to stabilize a bullet that small or light thinking maybe 800ish.
    Any advice or suggestions are welcome.
    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    do you plan on shooting standing up or prone, if your gonna be standing id vote aganst weighting it down, but if ur only shooting prone weighing it down would be a prudent choice, just make sure you weight the whole stock evenly so as to not throw off the balence of the gun
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  3. #3
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    Ummmmm well ok. For general prone and shooting from a bench or rest a Harris 6-9 inch is the best all around. It will attach to the front sling swivel stud.

    Weighting the rifle is up to you. Recoil of a .243 in that size rifle is going to be mild anyways. I don't see a reason to weight it more.

    You have to understand the purpose of mil dot optics. They are not made for shooting tiny targets at long range they are made so you can range a target and hit a man at long distances. At anything over 150-200 yards I believe the dot would cover most of a groundhog, they are not that big I don't think. Anyways there are much better choices for that purpose than a mil dot optic.
    Shooting anything that size at distance is a prone or bench shooting proposition only, you can try offhand but don't know how much luck you would have.
    Do some more research and I think you will find better options.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #4
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    Tacman has it right. No need to reduce recoil unless anything bigger than a .22 rimfire gives you grief. Skip the mil-dot reticle for long-rang hunting.

    Long-range shooting can be tricky business, especially with small, lightweight bullets. Heavier bullets will work better than lighter. Doping the wind takes a good eye, knowledge and experience. My shooting buddy back east took the 3-day Long Range Rifle 1 course at Storm Mountain this past summer, using a Rem 700R in .308 with match-grade ammo. Hitting stuff at 500+ yards even when the distance is known takes a great deal of concentration and control of your body (breathing, heart rate), but he said the wind was the most challenging part. They worked in 2-man teams with the spotter (with spotting scope) looking at the wind between muzzle and target, and calling "shoot" when the wind was most favorable. On anything but the flattest terrain you can have wind from opposite directions at different downrange distances.
    Smitty
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  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Dragman's Avatar
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    thanks guys, I am thinking I will use it mostly in the prone possition. The weighting the stock would really be more for balance of the gun since its SO barrel heavy now. I get the mil dots aren't ideal for small game hunting I am just used to them on my rifles. I do have other long range toys just none smaller than a 30 cal. Thats what I was a little unsure about how far I could stretch a little bullet and keep accuracy.
    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Dragman's Avatar
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    Gun is just about finished. I put a hawk VarmintII on it 4-16 44MM scope on it. I have the trigger down to a crisp 3lbs and am going to the range sunday to work up a load for it I am gonna use a 95grain nosler ballistic tip if the gun shoots them well. I am figure if all goes well this will be my 500yards and under gun. Only thing left is which bipod?? I was thinking a Harris or Caldwell 6-9" any one have a preference? My other guns with bipods have Harris's but the Caldwell is cheaper and looks to be equal in quality
    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragman View Post
    Gun is just about finished. I put a hawk VarmintII on it 4-16 44MM scope on it. I have the trigger down to a crisp 3lbs and am going to the range sunday to work up a load for it I am gonna use a 95grain nosler ballistic tip if the gun shoots them well. I am figure if all goes well this will be my 500yards and under gun. Only thing left is which bipod?? I was thinking a Harris or Caldwell 6-9" any one have a preference? My other guns with bipods have Harris's but the Caldwell is cheaper and looks to be equal in quality
    IMO.......no "bipod". Shoot it from a rest or on bags. Bipod is a bit rocky IMO, especially if you're working up a load and the barrel vibrations will be different with a composite stock (synthetic), compared to a wood or laminated stock. .243win and a heavy barrel.......interesting choice. Slower burning powders? In my opinion, I've been using the IMR powders for many years in a variety of calibers with excellent results. 25-06, 257 Roberts, 6.5X55, 22-250, and .308win. What's going to get you the best accuracy in the bolt action and reloading is a chamber OAL gauge, a set of calipers, and customizing your loads to your rifle. Seating depth and free bore should be terms you'll become familiar with. 500yds...no problem. If you want to go with generic (spec) reloads in your rifle and using the caliber specific manual, you'll just be getting an average, just like you would with any factory ammo for the cartridge.
    I am gonna use a 95grain nosler ballistic tip if the gun shoots them well.
    IMO...the ballistic tips are the most finicky. I'd rather work with HPs or soft points. If you're going with ballistic tips then you really need a tool that will measure the OAL of the bullet ogive and know where to seat it in the case and know where it comes in relation to the rifling. IMO.......500yds is still quite a piece to tackle consistently with most market offerings and using factory ammo.
    If you work your loads well, and chose a decent scope, you can do fine. The "glass" should never be more expensive than the rifle itself IMO. Otherwise you'll be placing too many expectations on something you don't actually have.
    Trigger work is something in and of itself. Be careful, be safe, and get the most out of your rifle.

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Dragman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    IMO.......no "bipod". Shoot it from a rest or on bags. Bipod is a bit rocky IMO, especially if you're working up a load and the barrel vibrations will be different with a composite stock (synthetic), compared to a wood or laminated stock. .243win and a heavy barrel.......interesting choice. Slower burning powders? In my opinion, I've been using the IMR powders for many years in a variety of calibers with excellent results. 25-06, 257 Roberts, 6.5X55, 22-250, and .308win. What's going to get you the best accuracy in the bolt action and reloading is a chamber OAL gauge, a set of calipers, and customizing your loads to your rifle. Seating depth and free bore should be terms you'll become familiar with. 500yds...no problem. If you want to go with generic (spec) reloads in your rifle and using the caliber specific manual, you'll just be getting an average, just like you would with any factory ammo for the cartridge.

    IMO...the ballistic tips are the most finicky. I'd rather work with HPs or soft points. If you're going with ballistic tips then you really need a tool that will measure the OAL of the bullet ogive and know where to seat it in the case and know where it comes in relation to the rifling. IMO.......500yds is still quite a piece to tackle consistently with most market offerings and using factory ammo.
    If you work your loads well, and chose a decent scope, you can do fine. The "glass" should never be more expensive than the rifle itself IMO. Otherwise you'll be placing too many expectations on something you don't actually have.
    Trigger work is something in and of itself. Be careful, be safe, and get the most out of your rifle.
    Lots of great info thanks. I think 4350 is what I used to load for an older 243 can't remember 100% though. I really wanted to get the ballistic tips to work because of the B.C. they give for long range and speed, but they aren't a must have. I think a day at the reloader and another at the range with a wide variety of charges will be the only way I can find that perfect load is gonna be. Hope it doesn't end up like a 308 I have were the overall bullet length makes it a single shot cuz they don't fit into the magazine (but I can keep that gun on the 14"X14" steel at 1000 at least 8 out of 10 shots.)
    I didn't put a high dollar piece of glass on it acually have a couple of hawks on some regular hunting rifles and really like them. I do have a Burris Black diamond sitting around that will get put on it if the hawk doesn't work out, but like you said putting a 700+ dollar scope on this rifle might not be appropriate.
    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women

  9. #9
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    Bipod height would depend on your peception of your most common shooting position.

    I had the shorter (6-13"?) Harris on my Rem 788 when I shot rockchucks out in WA. Most shooting was from prone from ridges.

    As far as weight, it's a trade-off between carrying comfort and recoil. The .243 is relatively mild with most loads. I once lightened my .30-06 up so much I couldn't stand to shoot it. I glass-bedded it and added back the original weight plus. Now it's comfy for long bench sessions. A good sling will make the extra carry weight un-noticeable. I would never have one of those ultra-lightweight composite stocks.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Ring's Avatar
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    harris 9-12 S model for field, the shorter 1's suck in the grass

    87gr Vmax and 105 Amax would be best

    load info here

    http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

  11. #11
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    IMR 4350 seems to be one of my best powders for a variety of cartridges as well. 25-06, 257 Roberts, and the 6.5x55. 4064 seems to place second on my averages or most popular list. I don't know how far you go for accuracy with your loads, but I'll tell you that I've found primers make a difference....at least with the IMR powders and loads I've made. Remington 9 1/2 seem to be the best overall performers with my combos. Federal's GM210M primers come in a close second for me as they only seem to work best for my .308win loads behind 3031. Using these in anything else isn't as consistent for me. Your perfect loads start at the reloading bench, but they make themselves known at the range. Keep a good log book of what you've done in a spiral notebook. Once in a while, you'll have to make exceptions for the cartridge OAL and fitting them into the magazine. That's going to happen more with the more modern rifles than with those built on specific long or short actions as customs. Factory tolerances these days center around factory ammo more than they did years ago. IMO...marketing tactic......rule out the re-loader and they'll have to buy factory ammo for a rifle that claims to be highly accurate right out of the box. These days, nobody wants to hear their product can be improved upon. The old days, they just wanted to sell the product. Custom builds on current factory options have also been sort of squeezed out over the years in order to define the market. Hand me something based on a Mauser action or an older Savage, and you can step out of that narrow market that tells you what you can and can't do.
    So....anyway.......I've had good experience with the A-Max ballistic tips myself as the previous reply suggested. They have the best profile IMO to get you closer to the rifling with less of a leading tip. I've also experimented with the molly coated bullets with good results. Realize that the .243win is something I've never dabbled in, but I know you've got plenty of good options to make the most out of what you have. Limitations are for those who want to be limited. Most do....that's why we have government to place limitations on us. Those whom think and work alone are still the pioneers and the makers of history. Limitations pretty much suck, and limitations were designed to keep you from realizing you have none. What you're capable of is best left behind closed doors these days. Best of luck.

  12. #12
    New Member Array dodge's Avatar
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    I had a Remington 700 Varminter in .243 back in the mid 1970's and I used Sierra 85 gr HPBT with 38.0 grs of IMR 4064 for groups will under an inch. The furthest that I killed a woodchuck (groundhog) was about 450 yards. I still use that load in a sporter barrel .243 and still get groups at about an inch. Thia bullet is very devistating at any range that I choose to use it.

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