A Question for the group

A Question for the group

This is a discussion on A Question for the group within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I've got a Ruger 10/22 Charger pistol. It comes with a 10" barrel. The way it's designed makes it impractical for use at my prefered ...

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Thread: A Question for the group

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    A Question for the group

    I've got a Ruger 10/22 Charger pistol. It comes with a 10" barrel.
    The way it's designed makes it impractical for use at my prefered range, however, so I purchased an Archangel stock for it.

    As I understand the law pertaining to SBR's, even though the barrel is 10", it's not considered an SBR unless the over all length is also under 26".
    With the stock extended it's just over 28".

    It seems a rather stupid game of semantics since the stockless Charger Archangel would be perfectly legal.

    I'm not holding replies to the standard of "legal advice". But I know you guys and gals will know where I can find the answers.

    Do I need to invest in a new barrel for my favorite plinker?


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    I would just to be on the safe side, plus a longer barrel will help your accuracy
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  3. #3
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    Legal advice over the internet is what you pay for it, but it is my understanding that the way AR-15 pistols and Ak pistols and such are made, are with receivers that have never been attached to a stock, and therefor, can be built as pistols.

    If you add a stock to an AR pistol, you now have and SBR.

    The same probably applies to your 10/22, by adding the stock it becomes an SBR. A non-NFA weapon has to have an OAL of 26", and a 16.5" or 18" barrel. It sounds to me like you might need a tax stamp in order to put that stock on your pistol.
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  4. #4
    Member Array Varmiter's Avatar
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    You might look up the entire title, but in summary:


    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > 921
    (8) The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
    However:
    Short barreled rifle (SBR) is a legal designation in the United States, referring to a shoulder-fired, rifled firearm with a barrel length of LESS than 16 inches (40.6 cm) or overall length of LESS than 26 inches (66.0 cm). In the United States, an SBR is an item regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) as an NFA firearm. In the absence of local laws prohibiting ownership, American civilians may own an SBR provided it is registered with the ATF, and a $200 tax is paid prior to taking possession of or creating the firearm.
    Chris

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    You have or will have created is an illegal SBR. The Charger is designed and sold as a pistol and without a tax stamp and registering the weapon it is illegal.

    On a side note a friend of mine and I invested in a suppressed Charger pistol nice shooting gun.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    New barrel ordered.
    http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/product...aspx?id=323825

    There are just so many to choose from! But this is the one I picked

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis128 View Post
    I've got a Ruger 10/22 Charger pistol. It comes with a 10" barrel.
    The way it's designed makes it impractical for use at my prefered range, however, so I purchased an Archangel stock for it.

    As I understand the law pertaining to SBR's, even though the barrel is 10", it's not considered an SBR unless the over all length is also under 26".
    With the stock extended it's just over 28".

    It seems a rather stupid game of semantics since the stockless Charger Archangel would be perfectly legal.

    I'm not holding replies to the standard of "legal advice". But I know you guys and gals will know where I can find the answers.

    Do I need to invest in a new barrel for my favorite plinker?
    It's an either / or thing. If your OAL is < 26" it needs a tax stamp regardless of barrel length.
    If your barrel is < 16", it needs a tax stamp, regardless of OAL.

    Matt
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  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis128 View Post
    New barrel ordered.
    http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/product...aspx?id=323825

    There are just so many to choose from! But this is the one I picked
    Dude, are you not listening to the advice here? You are making a major violation of Federal gun control laws. There is no legal way to convert a handgun into a rifle. Not only that, you are also advertising that you are committing a Federal felony over the Internet for everyone to know about.

    You are making multiple mistakes here.

    You are exposing yourself to such serious legal jeopardy, when just buying a brand new 10/22 rifle is so very cheap to do????

    .

  9. #9
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    It is my understanding that putting a longer barrel on a pistol is perfectly legal. The problem, at least as I see it, is adding the stock to a pistol. That isn't addressed in the above quoted laws, but I'm pretty sure it is illegal to add a stock to a non-collector type pistol without BATFE approval and paying a $200 tax. I don't think the overall length or barrel length has anything to do with adding a stock to a pistol; it's illegal to add a stock to a pistol regardless of overall length and barrel length.
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    Being "modified" would probably take it out of the "as maufactured" catagory.
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  11. #11
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    We're solidly into the "gray area" here - not a good place to be with the ATF.

    If you've ordered the longer barrel, and install it before you install the receiver into the stock, you should be OK.

    However, you need to be aware of the "constructive possession" pit. If you have the components for an SBR, you have an SBR - even if you never assemble them.

    Example - if you own an AR 15 rifle, and also a 10" pistol upper (without a pistol marked and compliant lower), in the eyes of the ATF you have an SBR.

    Similarly, if you've got your Charger receiver in a rifle stock with a 16" barrel attached, but you still have the 10" barrel, in the eyes of the ATF you have an SBR.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    We're solidly into the "gray area" here - not a good place to be with the ATF.

    If you've ordered the longer barrel, and install it before you install the receiver into the stock, you should be OK.

    However, you need to be aware of the "constructive possession" pit. If you have the components for an SBR, you have an SBR - even if you never assemble them.

    Example - if you own an AR 15 rifle, and also a 10" pistol upper (without a pistol marked and compliant lower), in the eyes of the ATF you have an SBR.

    Similarly, if you've got your Charger receiver in a rifle stock with a 16" barrel attached, but you still have the 10" barrel, in the eyes of the ATF you have an SBR.

    Matt
    That's the way I understand it as well.
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  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    OK, I did some further checking, and I apologize that I got the law backwards. It is illegal to convert a rifle to a pistol, but not to convert a pistol to a rifle.

    However, this does mean if that once the firearm is converted to a rifle, it could never be legally converted back to being a pistol.

    The advice here of getting rid of the 10" barrel is very sound too, as that would give you everything needed to have a short barrelled rifle.

    .

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
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    Reading a thread like this one further convinces me I need to stick to purchasing weapons from reputable dealers and not modifying them (except for sights, grips...stuff like that)...

    I have enough problems modifying a 67 Mustang...these gun laws make my head hurt....
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