New Ruger Scout M77 bolt rifle in .308

This is a discussion on New Ruger Scout M77 bolt rifle in .308 within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; If I was inclined to go with a Scout Rifle, a concept that was well thought out by the late Col. Cooper, I'd look at ...

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Thread: New Ruger Scout M77 bolt rifle in .308

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    If I was inclined to go with a Scout Rifle, a concept that was well thought out by the late Col. Cooper, I'd look at the Savage FCM10 Scout if I was wanting to save a couple of bucks.

    Biker

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array old grunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Very interesting looking rifle. It's definitely growing on me the more I look at it.

    Kind of funky to see a 10 rnd DBM on a bolt action though. However, in keeping with the traditional Jeff Cooper Scout rifle specs, it seems to meet them all. And beats the Austrian Steyr Scout $2,600 price tag by a large margin, although the Steyr does include a Leupold 2.5 x Optic.

    Ruger Gunsite Scout: M77-GS (MSRP $995.00)


    It may prove to be a nice SHTF rifle!
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    Nice rifle, especially for those who want 1 all-around centerfire weapon. It reminds me of the .303 Enfield Jungle Carbines that the British fielded at the very end of WW2.
    "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by old grunt View Post
    It reminds me of the .303 Enfield Jungle Carbines that the British fielded at the very end of WW2.
    I thought the same thing.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  5. #34
    Member Array Fishshavers's Avatar
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    I have a Ruger Frontier in 308 with Leupold scout scope. It is a very fast handling and accurate rifle.

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbeardsong View Post
    forgive me for my ignorance, but what is the advantage of this carbine over the mini thirty?
    The advantage: ACCURACY

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    The advantage: ACCURACY
    +1 Lance.

    And it will be a little harder hitting than the 7.62 x 39 round, so you'll get some better terminal ballistics at range, I would think.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbeardsong View Post
    Forgive me for my ignorance, but what is the advantage of this carbine over the mini thirty?
    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    The advantage: ACCURACY
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    +1 Lance.

    And it will be a little harder hitting than the 7.62 x 39 round, so you'll get some better terminal ballistics at range, I would think.
    The disadvantage is volume of fire. You have much faster follow ups and 20 more rounds per mag with the mini thirty. If you miss your first shot or are facing multiple attackers you cannot win with a bolt action like this one. You just can't put out enough rounds to compete with what would be coming back at you (assuming you attacker has a semi auto). The BGs would be getting three shots back at you for every one round you sent out.

    Volume of fire, fire superiority and (maintaining) initiative wins gunfights.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    And it will be a little harder hitting than the 7.62 x 39 round, so you'll get some better terminal ballistics at range, I would think.
    From the Hornady 7th edition book of cartridges.

    7.62X39 123 grain bullet out of a 20 inch BBL at 2400 fps max.

    .308 150 grain bullet out of a 22 inch bbl at 2800 fps max.

    Now if we take the average of 50 to 100 (I'll us 75 as an average) fps loss of velocity per inch of bbl we get:

    7.62X39 from 18.5 inch mini thirty = -110 fps = 2290 fps max.

    .308 from 16.5 inch bbl Ruger = - 410 fps = 2390 fps max.

    From the .308 you'll get a heavier bullet and better sectional density but not much in the way of velocity.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    The scout rifle concept was more of a general purpose, quick handling rifle than a military rifle for taking on a number of opponents.

    But just about any bolt action rifle is going to be more accurate than a Mini-14. And lower capacity.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoFan View Post
    The scout rifle concept was more of a general purpose, quick handling rifle than a military rifle for taking on a number of opponents.

    But just about any bolt action rifle is going to be more accurate than a Mini-14. And lower capacity.
    True, but this is not a scout rifle designed for hunting/general purpose. Ruger is marketing this as a tactical style carbine with a MSRP of around $900. Meanwhile you could get a nice Ruger compact rifle in .308 for about $450 (I know because I just bought one).
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    Here's what I posted over on our private forum about the new Ruger:

    Well, I am a True Believer in the Scout concept, and while Ruger's offering tempts me a little more than their previous half-assed efforts, I doubt I'll buy one. Here are my criticisms:
    1. Too heavy. A "true Scout" does not break 3 kilos, fully dressed with scope and mounts. This one is going to approach 4 kilos, loaded and scoped. A nice synthetic stock would likely knock off 1/2 to 1 pound, though.

    2. Barrel is too short. A Scout should have a barrel of 18-19" in a .308. The difference in ballistics between 16" and 18" is significant.

    3. "Flash hider?" It looks like they used the Mini-14GB/30 design, which is more appropriately called a "blast magnifier." Easy to replace, but why not do it right at the outset?

    4. Magazine interchangeability? If it will use M-14 mags, great. If not, they are dumbasses. (Turns out, it won't take M14 mags, but will take those from Accuracy International, at $80 a pop. Well, at least they're interchangeable with something...)

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    It is encouraging to see that the "street price" is reasonable, now that they are hitting dealers. AI mags seem OK; this is NOT a weapon for which one keeps a bunch of pre-loaded mags. (One doesn't really need detachable mags for a scout rifle, IMHO, though if executed well, they are fine.) The extremely short barrel is not my preference, but handloading can adjust for this, and with the short-barreled FALs and other "tactical" rifles being produced, I would bet that some ammo maker will tailor a .308 load for 16" .308s soon enough, if such does not already exist.

    I would have jumped on something like this in 2008 or 2009. 2010 was a lean year for me, and 2011 looks to be leaner. My job itself is secure enough, but most OT opportunities are a thing of the past, and I am prepping for retirement in the next one to eight years, depending on my health. I am not giving up my BLRs, which fill this role well enough for me, for now. Hopefully, this Ruger scout stays on the market for at least a couple of more years.
    Last edited by Rexster; January 11th, 2011 at 03:17 PM. Reason: clarity; edited redundant stuff

  14. #43
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    In one of the videos with the representatives from Ruger and Gunsite, they were reporting that using Hornady ammunition, they have been chronographing about 2,800 fps out of rifles with a 22 inch barrel and about 2,640 fps out of the Ruger Scout with 16.5 inch barrel.

    Now assuming the guy from Gunsite is not flat out lying (understanding that he knows someone is going to verify that) that is pretty good, as far as I'm concerned. And really, better than I expected. (Less than 300 fps loss of velocity in a 5.5 inch shorter barrel).

    http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsit...le/extras.html

    It's not going to be a precision varmint rifle for 800 + yard shots on targets the size of a shot glass, but then again it's not designed to be either. One can not discount the guns intended purpose and what it was designed for when leveling criticism against it. If the criticism falls within what the rifle's intended purpose and mission is, then it is a valid criticism. But if one is trying to compare an apple to an orange, then the criticism is just a bit disingenuous.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    In one of the videos with the representatives from Ruger and Gunsite, they were reporting that using Hornady ammunition, they have been chronographing about 2,800 fps out of rifles with a 22 inch barrel and about 2,640 fps out of the Ruger Scout with 16.5 inch barrel.

    Now assuming the guy from Gunsite is not flat out lying (understanding that he knows someone is going to verify that) that is pretty good, as far as I'm concerned. And really, better than I expected. (Less than 300 fps loss of velocity in a 5.5 inch shorter barrel).

    http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsit...le/extras.html

    It's not going to be a precision varmint rifle for 800 + yard shots on targets the size of a shot glass, but then again it's not designed to be either. One can not discount the guns intended purpose and what it was designed for when leveling criticism against it. If the criticism falls within what the rifle's intended purpose and mission is, then it is a valid criticism. But if one is trying to compare an apple to an orange, then the criticism is just a bit disingenuous.
    Agreed. Cooper did mean for the scout rifle to be a battle rifle. It was designed to be light, compact, quick and reliable. A jack-of-all-trades, master of none in particular.

    If you're suppressing, bring a LMG. If you're sniping, bring a sniper system. if you're planning on a firefight, bring an AR or BR.

    I do agree though, that this rifle could be improved upon by switching to a synthetic stock and a better flash-hider. I like the Vortex, but it's propensity for snagging in brush could be a problem on a scout rifle. The Phantom would probably be better.

  16. #45
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    It also appears you can keep one in the chamber while carrying this rifle, since the safety design apparently also blocks the firing pin.

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