Kel Tec is planning a new shotgun design. The KSG.

This is a discussion on Kel Tec is planning a new shotgun design. The KSG. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; My order is in. I wish they would offer choke tubes as an option, but it's not a deal breaker. Want want want want!...

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Thread: Kel Tec is planning a new shotgun design. The KSG.

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    My order is in. I wish they would offer choke tubes as an option, but it's not a deal breaker. Want want want want!
    Try not to screw up so bad they name the screw up after you. (Station 15 saying)

    NRA Certifed Instructor

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  3. #62
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
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    So the peak sound of a gunshot is 120-160 decibels at the barrel end... and hearing loss can occur at 85 decibels. However, it usually requires a sustained noise to cause hearing loss at 85 decibels vs. a single sound impulse. Let's assume that worst case the peak sound level of the shotgun is 160 decibels for a brief intense period. Wrapping 19NRR rated headphones takes you down to about 140 decibels... still pretty damn loud. Sticking in some additional earplugs at 30NRR takes you down to 110 decibels. This is a fairly safe level for short impulse sounds... it takes around an hour at 100 decibels before you are likely to experience hearing loss.

    This is, of course, assume you are pulling the trigger with the gun directly next to your ear. For all shooters, you have the primary impulse of sound directed AWAY from you so the actual experienced sound is less than the 160 decibels of the loudest gunshot.

    Double up on your ears and you should be fine with just about any man portable gun.

    Painful
    150 dB = fireworks at 3 feet
    140 dB = firearms, jet engine
    130 dB = jackhammer
    120 dB = jet plane takeoff, siren

    Extremely Loud
    110 dB = maximum output of some MP3 players, model airplane, chain saw
    106 dB = gas lawn mower, snowblower
    100 dB = hand drill, pneumatic drill
    90 dB = subway, passing motorcycle

    Very Loud
    80–90 dB = blow-dryer, kitchen blender, food processor
    70 dB = busy traffic, vacuum cleaner, alarm clock

    Moderate
    60 dB = typical conversation, dishwasher, clothes dryer
    50 dB = moderate rainfall
    40 dB = quiet room

    Faint
    30 dB = whisper, quiet library
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    My 14" Mossy SBS is 34" in overall length.
    It was marketed under the Mossberg 'Law Enforcement Division' as being toward LEOs in specific.

    My gun was built to my spec and further customized by me for multi-purpose role use to include specifically turkey _hunting_, deer _hunting_ with slugs, and as for HD/combat use.
    The only modification done to the gun between roles is to remove the rail mounted light I have mounted to it offset at the receivers rear most point...And to either swap that out for a rail mounted offset 3x magnifier or to add nothing else.

    The 'muzzle blast' on my gun as relative to a normal 18 or 20" turkey gun such as the Remington 870 Turkey Magnum I'd had on loan to me prior is minimal.
    Not noticeable to a degree to even remark toward. Apples to apples running either 2 3/4 or 3" shells...As head to head in either gun.
    Most people have never seen an SBS never mind handled and shot one at all. I've got just under one hundred shells through mine as current over the past ~6 months under real world non-suppositional testing and use.

    One thing has been a constant though; Whenever I bring it out for others to see and handle or even shoot...They get wide eyes with surprise and statements of I woulda never guessed or I'd heard these things were just good for blowing locks & hinges off of doors.

    Earpro, it's what makes the real and tangible measurable difference.

    As an OEM option I'd specifically spec'd my gun to be outfitted with a modified type choke (fixed rather than threaded for internal choke sleeves).
    An extremely rare option choice. They only made 25 barrels this way in 2008 (year of my guns production) and no longer offer the option at all as of 2009.
    All others are cylinder bore. But as I'd noted early in toward this Keltec gun, that is not at all limiting as it's not difficult nor expensive (~ $100) to have a barrel threaded so as to fit choke sleeves. Buy a sleeve in Modified singularly or Modified and if for some reason you reeeally need to reach out at far distance then a second in Extra Full.
    I'd personally thread in RemChoke as everybody supports that thread type and choke sleeves for RemChoke can be found on shelves anywhere in America. But choose Briley threading, or or even that for Mossberg...It doesn't matter really as you won't be buying replacement choke sleeves but once a decade or so anyway but for the most extreme/hard use of 4 season shooters (competitors).

    For those unfamiliar or unsure about how shotguns work as related to 'choke' their function and how it the choke, _not_ barrel length, that is a direct function toward both shot pattern tightness/spread AND distance that shot is fired AND functional distant accuracy of solid projectile shotgun slug (which widely is misunderstood as well) then among many sources of same read this article that goes in depth on the subject.

    Choosing The Right Choke For Your Shotgun
    Loads and hunting conditions factor into the equation
    By Layne Simpson
    http://www.wildfowlmag.com/tips_stra...hotgun_062304/

    When I instruct specifically a Basic Hunter Ed. or Waterfowl course I always make sure to bring both my SBS (black with polymer furniture) _and_ the Remy Super Magnum Turkey (camo with polymer furniture) as well as either the Browning A-5 smoothbore I use for deer and/or a S&W Model 3000 34" barrel 'goose gun' that has been used to take turkey, deer, and birds.
    Among a variety of other guns that my fellow instructor teammates will have available for display, demonstration and student handling as well.
    I tell everyone the exact same thing...

    A shotgun is a shotgun is a shotgun is a gun that has a large bore designed to fire shot and/or solid projectile slug.
    How the gun is specifically outfitted and setup for use toward a given task/application is on the owner/operator.
    How a gun is _marketed_ has little to no bearing what so ever toward it's actual function as a _shotgun_ (or rifle but that is another thread) in firing shot and/or slugs.
    How the gun is colored has little to no bearing what so ever toward it's actual function as a _shotgun_. be it black, camo, wood grain brown or heck I've even seen gun camo marketed that is in a mottled blaze orange!
    How the gun came from the mfr. as outfitted OEM does not limit the function of a _shotgun_ as related to use and application. Relatively minor and low cost tweaks and user/application specific modifications generally can be made with ease to support most any use & application. I've seen folk take Remy 870 Marine Magnum guns into the field to hunt...A gun that comes nickel plated as OEM and shines like a doorknob. Very easy to work around with minor effort. No reasons at all to buy a second and third or fourth gun IF you don't have desire to do so, or the extra coin.

    A shotgun is a shotgun is a shotgun folks.
    This guns barrel length is 18 inches with an OAL of 26.

    Wear earpro whenever you are handling guns of any sort to be fired/discharged AND wear appropriate NRR rating type earpro in either single or double layering...So that you don't end up feeling like Lance has reported.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    So you actually believe that ear protection is absolute, and provides 100% protection no matter what the circumstances?

    That is not at all true. All ear protection has its limits. That is why they all have different NNR ratings on them.

    I seriously doubt that you have any significant permanent hearing damage. For if you did, you would not advocate any shotgun like this one that increases the risk of receiving such damage. For you would not want any others to unnecessarily risk ending up having to also suffer.

    .
    You're not paying attention. I've shot thousands of rounds through SBSs and (much louder) SBRs. I have had my hearing tested regularly since 1991. I suffered some permanent loss over my active duty, "no or little" ear pro years. Since then, I always always always wear ear pro (including a "Sonic Defender" in my non-radio ear operationally), and have suffered very little loss since. My SPR had an OAL of around 27". This shotgun, apparently, will be about 26". If you think that one inch of OAL is going to make this some sort of unstoppable ear-destroyer that crushes your inner ear regardless of ear pro...and therefore doom this product (which is apparently selling off the shelves before it's even ON the shelves), I don't know what to tell you.

    Unless and until there are tests (there won't be) demonstrating that THIS design is so much louder than more traditional designs that ear-pro won't protect your hearing, I'm calling this a huge steaming pile of Broad Supposition.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #65
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    How about this; if you don't like it for whatever reason, be it afraid of causing hearing damage or its ugly, don't buy it. Just because its one the market doesnt mean its right for you. Don't buy it. Its that simple.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    It is still a pump action, so it is going to kick like a mule.

    And with the muzzle so much dramatically closer to your head, it will do even more serious damage to your hearing.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    It would be a bet that you would lose in the most terrible way. You should value your hearing enough to pass on considering a shotgun like this one.

    Just look at how ridiculously close the muzzle of this 12 gauge is to the shooter's head:

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Well, I grew up shooting in the dark ages, shortly after the invention of gunpowder. My Dad sadly did not advise me to protect myself, or himself either.

    As I got older I eventually learned the importance of hearing protection. But it was too late. The damage was already done.

    It actually did not start to show up until I reached my late 40's. And by that time I had been wearing good protection for many years. My doctor explained to me that can indeed happen. Damage done early in one's life does not always show up immediately, and can often crop up decades later, after one ages.

    In any event, there is no good reason at all to place a shotgun muzzle this close to your head. Going back to physics, detonation waves tend to dissipate relatively quickly with distance. So the closer the detonation is to you, the much more intense it's shock wave will be. Just the turning of my head to sight down my barrel, and thus turn my left ear forward, was enough to make a huge difference, and cause it to be damaged. While my right ear, which was always turned away from the muzzle, never suffered any damage.

    In any event, a person's hearing is way, way too important for them to risk it on such a flawed shotgun design like this one.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Certainly not for anyone who cares about their hearing.

    Of course, not everyone has bird hunted throughout their life like I have done. Nor has everyone been involved in target sports like trap shooting and sporting clays as I have, either. A person would never use this shotgun for any of those purposes. So I suppose if one owned it, but did not shoot it very much, they could be OK.

    Still, it is a stupid design that shooters are not going to enjoy shooting, due to the intense muzzle blast being so much closer to their face. It will most definitely be a commercial failure. I'm confident that the majority of people that buy it will end up eventually regretting the purchase.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    So you actually believe that ear protection is absolute, and provides 100% protection no matter what the circumstances?

    That is not at all true. All ear protection has its limits. That is why they all have different NNR ratings on them.

    I seriously doubt that you have any significant permanent hearing damage. For if you did, you would not advocate any shotgun like this one that increases the risk of receiving such damage. For you would not want any others to unnecessarily risk ending up having to also suffer.

    .

    What's that you say? I couldn't hear you over all that conjecture.










    con∑jec∑ture : the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.
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    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

  8. #67
    Member Array LeftofMars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    How about this; if you don't like it for whatever reason, be it afraid of causing hearing damage or its ugly, don't buy it. Just because its one the market doesnt mean its right for you. Don't buy it. Its that simple.
    AMEN! To each his/her own, that's why they make Chocolate AND Vanilla ice cream.
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  9. #68
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    The real trouble with Kel-tec products is their lack of production. I've been lusting after both an RFB and one of their handgun carbines that take Sig magazines, but I can't seem to find either at my local gun shops or gun shows. I was told I could order one, but the dealers could not tell me when one would be available.

    This looks cool and might even be great handling, but I'm not buying until I can hold one first.
    Last edited by AutoFan; January 9th, 2011 at 01:30 PM. Reason: spelling

  10. #69
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    I can give you 14 reasons to get the hell out of my house

    LOL
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider View Post
    I can give you 14 reasons to get the hell out of my house

    LOL

    Please do not short change yourself.... 15, 15 reasons to get out of my house.
    02PSD4ME

  12. #71
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Kel-Tec Shotgun (KSG)
    KelTecWeapon
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwN8jHSEhCE

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  13. #72
    Member Array Bkrazy's Avatar
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    It would have been nice to see them switch tubes. Also get to se the accuracy (yes I know its a shotgun). Thanks for the link though. It looks fun!
    Please take my posts with a grain of salt. I am frequently sleep deprived and always just on this side of "Krazy".

    When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. Edmund Burke

  14. #73
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    Man, if that thing works smoothly thats about as perfect for home defense as you can get.
    My other Kahr is a Kimber.

  15. #74
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed BKrazy.

    I hate when people post videos like these...They basically show NOTHING.
    Yeah okay so it pumps, like a pump shotgun is supposed to do.
    yeah okay so it goes bang, like a shotgun is supposed to do.

    Lets show something that differentiates the device from others.
    Show it's accuracy with a given shell type and payload be it shot or soild projectile.
    Show it being loaded.
    Show a bottom view so we can see ejection of the spent hulls.
    Show the target at the end both for distance (and state this!) as well as shot pattern, and/or solid projectile point of impact, as relative to point of aim.
    Show the gun being shouldered.

    This vid clip is pretty much pointless and shows nothing.
    I'd imagined this two or so weeks ago to same net as shown result; Only in my imagination _everything_ was much cooler and showy!

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  16. #75
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    I'll have some "good" information hopefully on this baby Friday. I'm good friends with the FFL of the photographer who does KelTecs photo spreads. They're going out Friday to do some "action" shots with the KSG. I cussed him like a drunken sailor when I found out that he 1. HAD the dang thing in his possession, 2. he's getting to shoot it, 3. He laughed at me when I said I have to work all day Friday.
    I've been promised some "me time" with the KSG and my Osprey suppressor in the near future...after SHOT show.
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

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