HD Lever Gun input - please

HD Lever Gun input - please

This is a discussion on HD Lever Gun input - please within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I like lever guns and I live in a semi-rural place. I plan on using a couple of lever guns instead on my AR's for ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30

Thread: HD Lever Gun input - please

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array paul45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    SML, VA
    Posts
    712

    HD Lever Gun input - please

    I like lever guns and I live in a semi-rural place. I plan on using a couple of lever guns instead on my AR's for HD. I want the increase in penitration and the big / heavy bullet hit factor. Plus I am comfortable using them with over 45 years of practice with levers. I have a Win AE 30-30 with XS ghost ring and front sight for the bedroom backup and a Marlin 1895 Trapper 45-70 with fiber optics for my sitting room backup. I need suggestions of a good method to attach lights to these guns. The only idea I have is black tape and some cardboard to center the beams. Any ideas?? Also the butt stock elastic shell holders slide around. Any ideas on anchoring them?
    "Being PARANOID is just plain smart thinking when they are really out to get you!"


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    4,011
    Waaaay back in the day I knew a guy who wanted with a scoped 30-30. The scope was mounted the the end of the barrel and he used a handgun scope for the extended eye relief. You may be able to adapt some scope rings similarly to hold a light.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida Treasure Coast
    Posts
    3,211
    http://www.wildwestguns.com/accessories.html

    Scroll down to light mount. Good luck. They are sure heavy weight rounds for HD but if your not worried about overpenetration have at it.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  4. #4
    Moderator
    Array gasmitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    11,244
    Ummm... are you considering using these for defense inside your house?

    Blast from a 5.56 inside a room is already pretty intense, but from either the .30-30 or .45/70 I think you'd probably deafen people three rooms over (including yourself). How about a pistol-caliber lever gun, like .357, .44 or .45?

    On the other hand, if your intended use is defense of your perimeter, then the white light you mount needs to be pretty powerful to illuminate a threat more than about 15 yards away. Attached photo shows a 110 lumen white light with target at just 25 yards... and the target has a light-colored border so it's lighting up better than, say, a BG in dark clothing.

    To mount the light reliably, I think you're going to have to get crafty. I would look at some of the aftermarket mounts for tactical shotguns (not the forearm-integrated mounts) and see how you could modify them. Black tape and cardboard? Far too flimsy. You'd be better off with a hand-held light in your support hand.
    Attached Images
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member
    NROI Chief Range Officer

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    9,499
    I think a long gun is pretty bad for home defense. It is easy to disarm someone welding one, and the ability to use the non shooting hand to do things like open doors, talk on the phone, ect are pretty much negated. A handgun is easier to control, hold onto in a struggle and allows more mobility.

    If you insist on a long gun despite this knowledge, I would go with a 357 loaded with 38 spl or a 44 with 44 spl loads . Smitty pointed out an important factor; certain hearing loss.

  6. #6
    Member Array TSKnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    SW MN
    Posts
    357
    Quote Originally Posted by paul45 View Post
    I like lever guns and I live in a semi-rural place. I plan on using a couple of lever guns instead on my AR's for HD. I want the increase in penitration and the big / heavy bullet hit factor. Plus I am comfortable using them with over 45 years of practice with levers. I have a Win AE 30-30 with XS ghost ring and front sight for the bedroom backup and a Marlin 1895 Trapper 45-70 with fiber optics for my sitting room backup. I need suggestions of a good method to attach lights to these guns. The only idea I have is black tape and some cardboard to center the beams. Any ideas?? Also the butt stock elastic shell holders slide around. Any ideas on anchoring them?

    I shoot lever-guns regularly (30-30, 357, 45lc, 45-70). While I am all for using one for HD (mine is a 45lc carbine), the 45-70 is definitely overkill IMO.

    The 30-30 is well suited to perimeter defense and varmint control. For inside the home either would be deafening when fired and most likely cause the shooter to be momentarily confused. The other problem is over-penetration which may or may not be a concern in your case.

    I don't have a light mounted to any of my lever-guns. What I have learned to do is use my support hand with the light and rest the barrel on my wrist. This will work with almost any long-gun with a little practice.

    Stay safe
    Democracy:
    Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
    Freedom:
    A well armed lamb contesting the vote.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,806
    Here's a light mounting system from Wild West Guns



    I've seen something a bit more simple, at Cabela's, but I cannot find it... It was a simple 1" flashlight clamp that clamped onto the magazine tube of a lever-action rifle.

    I would really like to see your 94AE with the Ghost Rings on it. Maybe you could give a bit of info on the installation, etc.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,367
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I think a long gun is pretty bad for home defense. It is easy to disarm someone welding one, and the ability to use the non shooting hand to do things like open doors, talk on the phone, ect are pretty much negated. A handgun is easier to control, hold onto in a struggle and allows more mobility.

    If you insist on a long gun despite this knowledge, I would go with a 357 loaded with 38 spl or a 44 with 44 spl loads . Smitty pointed out an important factor; certain hearing loss.
    I have to agree - moving inside the home = handgun. Secured inside safe room = shotgun (I suppose firing it indoors would hurt the ears, but if the BG(s) is trying to get into the room, it beats the alternative).

    I just yesterday got a Marlin 336 in .30-30 with a scope for perimeter duty, to augment my Mini 14. I may add a butt cuff to hold more ammo. I have one for my shotgun (Rem 870) and it has an elastic band that goes around the rear of the butt - stays in place pretty well under recoil. No plans to mount a light.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  9. #9
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    .45-70 for home defense? Hope you got a big mop bucket and lots of sponges.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  10. #10
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,856
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I think a long gun is pretty bad for home defense. It is easy to disarm someone welding one, and the ability to use the non shooting hand to do things like open doors, talk on the phone, ect are pretty much negated. A handgun is easier to control, hold onto in a struggle and allows more mobility.
    I am going to respectfully disagree with you on that point. Its more of a training issue. If someone doesn't know what they are doing inside a structure with a pistol, and go around with it in a modified weaver stance, putting the weapon past thresholds and the like instead of pieing it off, then it is just as easy to disarm them. If you stick your pistol and arms through a doorway before you clear the corner next to it, I'm gonna hit you in the elbow so it goes the wrong way, and take your gun. If you do it with a rifle with a properly used one point of three point sling, then I am not going to be able to shoot you with your own weapon as easily. I can do almost everything I need to with my M-4gery or shotgun one handed (the main exceptions I think of are reloading and clearing malfunctions, which you need two hands for a handgun too), while properly using a sling. I can talk on a phone/radio, open doors, drag a wounded buddy to safety, all while maintaining a firing position with a long gun.

    Like I said though, it is a training thing. I know you have the training and experience as well, I just disagree with you. With all that being said, I am still not going to clear a structure by myself, unless I have absolutely no choice, no matter what weapons system I have.

    Moving back on topic, I have no issues with lever guns as HD weapons, but I think a .45-70 might be a little bit excessive. Something in .38/357, or .44, or .45lc would be a lot more appropriate for defense inside the home, IMHO.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  11. #11
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    20,331
    The key is knowing what you are doing vs. not. The vast majority of people (no training or wrong training) dont know what they are doing. It doesnt matter if they want to admit it or not.

    I agree on sticking with the pistol calibers for HD.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #12
    OD*
    OD* is offline
    Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Coopersville
    Posts
    11,774
    The blast from the weapon's caliber won't matter much.

    Table 1. SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES)

    .410 Bore 28" barrel 150dB
    26" barrel 150.25dB
    18 _" barrel 156.30dB

    20 Gauge 28" barrel 152.50dB
    22" barrel 154.75dB

    12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB
    26" barrel 156.10dB
    18 _" barrel 161.50dB

    Table 2. CENTERFIRE RIFLE DATA

    .223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 _" barrel 155.5dB
    .243 in 22" barrel 155.9dB
    .30-30 in 20" barrel 156.0dB
    7mm Magnum in 20" barrel 157.5dB
    .308 in 24" barrel 156.2dB
    .30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB
    .30-06 in 18 _" barrel 163.2dB
    .375 — 18" barrel with muzzle brake 170 dB


    Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA

    .25 ACP 155.0 dB
    .32 LONG 152.4 dB
    .32 ACP 153.5 dB
    .380 157.7 dB
    9mm 159.8 dB
    .38 S&W 153.5 dB
    .38 Spl 156.3 dB
    .357 Magnum 164.3 dB
    .41 Magnum 163.2 dB
    .44 Spl 155.9 dB
    .45 ACP 157.0 dB
    .45 COLT 154.7 dB

    http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  13. #13
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,856
    OD, I'm not against the .45-70 because of hearing issues. I think that there are better choices for HD, that are more controllable, and have less chance of over penetrating the target.

    Shooting a firearm indoors without ear pro is going to hurt your ears, I know.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  14. #14
    OD*
    OD* is offline
    Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Coopersville
    Posts
    11,774
    That wasn't posted for anyone in particular, actually hadn't gotten to your post, it's just to show there isn't much difference in decibel levels between most of them.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array paul45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    SML, VA
    Posts
    712
    Thanks for the suggestions on calibers. There is a tool for every job. Basic bedroom and sitting room defense is a G21SF's with Insight M3 lights, Rem 870 Tacticals with Surefire built in front light for each room plus whatever carry guns and lights on my person. There is also a coach gun under the desk. The 5.56 is too light a round to go thru walls if I need to shoot thru cover. Years of training with some very qualified instructors, years of competition (current IDPA, 3 Gun and USPSA) and years of caliber testing. I've tried everything and I would go with 2 lever 45-70's but I only have one so the Win A/Ewith 20" bl is the next choice. The .35 Rem's barrel is too long for what I want and .308 BLR is too pretty to have the intimidation factor (plus it's scoped). Nothing says "GO AWAY" better that a .45 (Clint Smith). You may consider it over kill but the past 63 years have taught me different. Remember it's a rural area and only me, the Wife and the cat (first lines of defense - they are both tougher than I am). I think I solved the issue with bike inner tube strips and a hand carved wood spacer to keep the lights in-line with the bores. The mock up survived 20 rounds of 45-70 today. I will look into some of the above suggestions. There may be more robust.

    Bring enough gun!
    "Being PARANOID is just plain smart thinking when they are really out to get you!"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Lever 38/357 ?
    By tkruf in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: July 19th, 2010, 01:32 AM
  2. Anyone think I should buy this lever action?
    By buckeye .45 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: March 31st, 2009, 02:53 AM
  3. Know what I'd like to have? A lever action in 9mm
    By Tangle in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: November 17th, 2008, 02:59 PM
  4. Lever gun questions
    By BAC in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: November 1st, 2008, 06:42 PM
  5. Lever gun lesson please!
    By Creature in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: December 1st, 2007, 07:30 AM

Search tags for this page

45-70 decibels
,
flashlight mount for lever action rifle
,
flashlight mount for lever gun
,
lever action flashlight
,

lever action flashlight mount

,

lever action light mount

,

lever action rifle light mount

,

lever gun light mount

,
light mount for lever action rifle
,
marlin lever action flashlight mount
,
marlin lever action light mount
,

tactical lever gun

Click on a term to search for related topics.