AR-15: For Home Defense? - Page 3

AR-15: For Home Defense?

This is a discussion on AR-15: For Home Defense? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm I believe it is foolish to clear a house in the dark. When police respond they arrive with numbers, canines, and ...

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 112
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: AR-15: For Home Defense?

  1. #31
    Member
    Array kudzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    109
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I believe it is foolish to clear a house in the dark. When police respond they arrive with numbers, canines, and other gear that enable them to be safe. Furthermore, a criminal will not wait around when they see blue lights coming. But, they may wait in the darkness in an ambush area and wait for you to enter the kill zone.

    I am an LE, and if someone breaks into my house, and I do not have visual and a good shot, I am calling 911, secure my family, put our backs in a corner, armed ready, and on the phone with my brothers, or sisters in blue.
    Exactly! Thank you.
    The Founders Got It Right - Back To The Constitution
    NRA (Life) - GOA (Life) - NAGR - GOSC (Life)


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I believe it is foolish to clear a house in the dark. When police respond they arrive with numbers, canines, and other gear that enable them to be safe. Furthermore, a criminal will not wait around when they see blue lights coming. But, they may wait in the darkness in an ambush area and wait for you to enter the kill zone.

    I am an LE, and if someone breaks into my house, and I do not have visual and a good shot, I am calling 911, secure my family, put our backs in a corner, armed ready, and on the phone with my brothers, or sisters in blue.
    I completely agree. My only reason for doing so is that I live in a 4 bedroom, my daughter and son both have bedrooms upstairs at opposite ends of the hall. My wife and I have our bedroom downstairs at the end of the hall. I'm all for hunkering down and waiting for 911, it's just not always the best option. If I hear something upstairs, I'm going, right or wrong.

    Still coming to Corpus buddy?? I got a bunch of new stuff to run at the range!

    Quote Originally Posted by chivvalry View Post
    I completely concur... a long gun is more likely to get grabbed, less maneuverable, takes two hands, etc. To even do something as simple as turn on a light you have to reduce your readiness to react by removing at best your stabilizing hand and at worst your trigger hand from the weapon. A handgun is fast, easier to retain, leaves a hand free, etc. Shotgun/rifle are excellent "bunker" weapons where you wait for the threat to come to YOUR fatal funnel and be met with deadly force.

    Just remember... you still have to AIM a shotgun... even with an 18" barrel your spread is still inches at 20 feet from your barrel... not feet at 20 inches from your barrel.
    True, it CAN get grabbed. It's also much more effective. I'm sure you have, so this isn't an offensive question, but how many training hours do you have behind a rifle in extreme CQB/structure clearing?? I ask because I used to think like you do. Now, I have no concern about grabbing my 16" AR (even over my 8", 12", etc., though when my SR15 SBR 11.5" comes in, that'll be the house gun) because I know how to do it and know how to handle someone grabbing for my gun. It's actually quite simple.

    I have a lot of training on a rifle, video surveillance and motion sensors. I also have a lot of low light training with long guns and handguns. Always moving with 1/2 second flashes to navigate and 1 second flashes to identify. ALWAYS moving.

    Also, with my grip, the tip of the muzzle is just a few inches past where the muzzle of my handgun is when extended. It's about the same on a 11.5" AR. To each his own, but with proper training, there's no reason to choose a handgun over a long gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by rks2 View Post
    HEY, I tried PM you but your quote is full.
    Cleared it out, sorry about that!

    I'm all for staying hidden and waiting for the police, but like I said above, it's not always the best choice. BUT, The OP was asking about AR's for home defense, not if we think you should clear your own house or not. That's a very personal decision with WAY too many factors to have a general yes or no answer. When the heart rate is at 190 beats a minute and you have a 5 year old and 18 month old at far ends of a floor you're not even on, your perspective changes a bit. I'll take a few extra holes so my kids don't have to.

    I don't know about anyone else's experience, but mine has been that bad guys DO NOT want to wait for you to come. Once they know you're coming, the majority are going as fast as they can. This is from personal experience and that of many I know. Unless their intention is to harm instead of rob, or were hired to make you go away, they're usually gone or hiding in fear, not to ambush. Don't get me wrong, it definitely happens, but it's not the norm.

    For those of you that live alone or with the wife only, stay put. Until mine move out, THEY are my priority. I'm not going to wait in my room hidden while they get scared of a noise and maybe come out of their room looking for Mom or Dad.

    I know some top level trainers that say the handgun is the best choice, I know others that say a long gun is a must (handgun on the belt too usually). There's no right answer. Unless YOU PERSONALLY have spent time training with both (professional training, not at home giving it a quick try), you only know what you know. You are doing yourself a disservice by not at least learning all you can about all your options THEN ruling one or the other out. Ruling something out without at least a good 10 to 20 hours of training is like saying "I don't carry spare mags because the 8 in my gun is more than I'll ever need!"
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  3. #33
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    16,468
    My idea of HD is from the inside out, not outside in. If I come home and suspect someone's inside, I'm all for letting LE come do the dirty work. Their insurance far exceeds mine.

    Yeah, like all guns, shotguns need to be aimed also. But they do have a larger margin of error than a handgun, all things being equal.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    My idea of HD is from the inside out, not outside in. If I come home and suspect someone's inside, I'm all for letting LE come do the dirty work. Their insurance far exceeds mine.

    Yeah, like all guns, shotguns need to be aimed also. But they do have a larger margin of error than a handgun, all things being equal.

    There's a reason the shotgun is considered THE home defense weapon…

    I've been watching my brother-in-law's million dollar home while they've been gone to their vacation home. I got a call from the alarm company about a glass break alarm. They had just been broken into a few weeks prior (most likely by his daughter's scumbag boyfriend). I got there before the police. As much as I'd have LOVED catching that dirtbag, or any dirtbag for that matter after almost shooting that guy few months ago, I waited for the police to get there and clear it.

    They have one painting alone that's worth almost $250,000, not to mention all the other stuff. last time they got 2 laptops, an iPad, a shotgun, a Rolex and some jewelry. I'd have hated for anyone to get away with that, luckily most thieves (down here at least) are too stupid to realize what's what.

    Anyway, no one was inside, but there was a piece of wood wedged into the french doors that go into the master bedroom. Not sure why they got a glass break alarm, but it could have been the pitch of the dog's bark or wood cracking from what they said.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,910
    Someone told me a long time ago, drink cheap wine, smoke filterless cigarettes, and find the ugliest woman you can, and your problems are solved. You don't have a damn thing anyone else wants! Lol

    hey jonconsig! Haven't seen you here in a while! Yeah I'm workin on that trip as we speak. Wife and I are tryin to sync our schedules.

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Let me know when you get it planned. I wish we had something longer than 100 yards here. There's a 1,000 yard range up near Austin. Maybe we'll bust the 50 out and kill a couple hogs! I've been meaning to do it, just haven't gotten around to it. We're doing a NV hog hunt in a few weeks though and running HD video through the PVS-22. Should be some good stuff. Don't forget to let me know when you're coming...
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  7. #37
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    True, it CAN get grabbed. It's also much more effective. I'm sure you have, so this isn't an offensive question, but how many training hours do you have behind a rifle in extreme CQB/structure clearing?? I ask because I used to think like you do. Now, I have no concern about grabbing my 16" AR (even over my 8", 12", etc., though when my SR15 SBR 11.5" comes in, that'll be the house gun) because I know how to do it and know how to handle someone grabbing for my gun. It's actually quite simple.

    I have a lot of training on a rifle, video surveillance and motion sensors. I also have a lot of low light training with long guns and handguns. Always moving with 1/2 second flashes to navigate and 1 second flashes to identify. ALWAYS moving.

    Also, with my grip, the tip of the muzzle is just a few inches past where the muzzle of my handgun is when extended. It's about the same on a 11.5" AR. To each his own, but with proper training, there's no reason to choose a handgun over a long gun.

    I know some top level trainers that say the handgun is the best choice, I know others that say a long gun is a must (handgun on the belt too usually). There's no right answer. Unless YOU PERSONALLY have spent time training with both (professional training, not at home giving it a quick try), you only know what you know. You are doing yourself a disservice by not at least learning all you can about all your options THEN ruling one or the other out. Ruling something out without at least a good 10 to 20 hours of training is like saying "I don't carry spare mags because the 8 in my gun is more than I'll ever need!"
    You have waaay more training than I do. My "training" consists of simple disarmament practice and very basic retention along with maybe 6-7 hours of shoot house work. So... given your greater experience is it easier to disarm an untrained person with a shotgun or a pistol?
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,910
    Chivvalry, one overlooked variable is two attackers in your home. So the question is, even if you can retain possession of a long arm in a struggle against one, what do you do with two, while your weapon is tied up against the one? Everyone has their owngame plan, and I am not one to condemn, but personally, I like to reduce the variables against me.

    If I lose a gamble at the Blackjack table, I am out some money. If I lose my gamble in my house by putting myself in a life and death struggle, my whole family loses.

  9. #39
    Member
    Array GaryB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by chivvalry View Post
    Sure it'll work fine... BUT, it's hard to beat a 12 gauge shotty with an 18" barrel and buckshot for HD... Be careful going around corners with either one of those though...
    Ya mean like this?


  10. #40
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    I'd rather disarm an untrained person that has a rifle or shotgun, for sure, especially a shotgun since it will most likely be a pump. If we get that round out of the chamber, it's going to go south real quick for him. Here's something though that can help you with retaining your rifle or shotgun. Let's say you do everything wrong and lead with your muzzle. The muzzle will be pointing slightly down. When they grab it, and 90% will this way, they'll push down and towards you, maybe to the side. If you fire, you'll most likely hit the leg and I assure you'll they'll let go. If the muzzle is pointing at the dirt, drop to your knees and fire. This will bring the muzzle up as you bring the stock down, easily taking out their knees. Most likely though, it'll never get to this point.

    A good sling makes all the difference here as well. I like running single point because it's effortless to transition to support side should to take a corner on your left. A 2 point works very well too and maybe even better for retention, you just have to practice loosening it and transitioning shoulders. This is very easy to do, it's even easier if your rear attachment point is not the right side of the butt stock and your front attachment point is on the left side towards the rear of the rail. When I run two point, it's usually with my single point, so all I do is detach the clip from the D ring on the sling and attach it to the RSA on my top rail. The rear attachment point for me is the ASAP plate.

    I don't disagree with your decision at all. I just know all too well what a handgun will do and what a rifle will do. If I have a couple meth addicts busting through my house, the last thing I want to do is fight with a handgun. 2 rounds from a 5.56 (or shotgun) will destroy them at those distances with m855, let alone TAP in 60 or 75 grain. A shot two inches from the spine will most likely destroy the spine. A 9mm or 45 two inches from the spine will just punch through. Now, there are plenty of guys that have survived a couple rounds of 5.56 and stayed vertical, but the chances are much less than continuing to fight after a couple rounds of 9mm. Also, like I mentioned before, there was a group running around kicking in doors with vests on. Even with fmj in .223, you'll punch right through it. You may lose the fragmentation, but it's better than not penetrating at all. A shotgun with buckshot will also, most likely, not penetrate a vest, though it'll probably crack some ribs and not the heck out of them.

    Don't rule it out. With the right training, you may find it's just right for you. If not, at least you got some more training on the platform. Remember too, I always have a handgun on me.. So, being able to grab my rifle is in the best of situations. Most likely if I have to fight, it'll be with my handgun. When I had to use a gun in defense, I had absolutely NO TIME to get my rifle.

    With the right training, anything is possible. I look at what others are doing in the industry. I've seen enough people that I highly respect say they choose an AR for home defense. That's good enough for me. I wouldn't if I was the only one doing it. Now, I'm not going to grab my 700 in 308 to clear my home, but you better believe I would if I had no other options. I can't stress enough to go out and get some training. Even if it's not on the AR and just handgun. Get the best you can and practice for 15 minutes a day. Muscle memory is so very important and many overlook it. Also, get some low light training. i thought I knew what i was doing before with a good Surefire. Turns out I was COMPLETELY wrong. Very quick flashes while moving and it's best to shoot with the light off - get that. That was a shock to me at first, but it's what many teach if in the right situation.

    not only will all the training give you a major advantage, it's enjoyable as well. Marines are clearing houses everyday with their 20" A2's with fixed stocks and plates. Not ideal, but it can be done. Not that it relates to us, just saying'!

    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Chivvalry, one overlooked variable is two attackers in your home. So the question is, even if you can retain possession of a long arm in a struggle against one, what do you do with two, while your weapon is tied up against the one? Everyone has their owngame plan, and I am not one to condemn, but personally, I like to reduce the variables against me.

    If I lose a gamble at the Blackjack table, I am out some money. If I lose my gamble in my house by putting myself in a life and death struggle, my whole family loses.
    Gotta have that handgun on the belt too, don't forget. Also, I've found that calling a time out works in many cases - If that doesn't work, I toss some red Phos!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  11. #41
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Chivvalry, one overlooked variable is two attackers in your home. So the question is, even if you can retain possession of a long arm in a struggle against one, what do you do with two, while your weapon is tied up against the one? Everyone has their owngame plan, and I am not one to condemn, but personally, I like to reduce the variables against me.

    If I lose a gamble at the Blackjack table, I am out some money. If I lose my gamble in my house by putting myself in a life and death struggle, my whole family loses.
    No doubt. Hence the reason I would prefer to let the guys with backup, dogs, vests, etc. clear my house if I know someone is actually in it. All that "stuff" can easily be replaced and I am insured. If I am aware of a break-in then the farthest I'm going is the top of my stairs and that's just so I can get the kids down the hall to the MBR. After that, hunker down and wait for the good guys hoping the bad guys don't come thru the MBR door... 'cause if they do then they will be met with deadly force.

    jonconsiglio... wow... that was a lot of great info. I totally get the difference between a handgun and rifle or shotgun as far as stopping a threat. Given my current level of training and capability I still think I lean toward the handgun at this point... 15 rounds of 9mm hollow points should at least scare the hell out a BG. I do hope to do some "real" training this summer.
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  12. #42
    Member Array Fastball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    York County, PA
    Posts
    424
    Quote Originally Posted by GaryB View Post
    Ya mean like this?

    I prefer a pump, (see below), but close enough. But again,...NOT my clear the house weapon!



    My wife has a Mossy HS410 on her side of the bed. She handles it quite well and that new PDX1 ammo is nasty at close range in my humble home.
    Last edited by Fastball; February 17th, 2011 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Dang spelling!!
    You never see a motorcycle parked ouside a psychiatrist's office!

  13. #43
    Member
    Array GaryB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by Fastball View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Clearing a house with a long gun by one's self is a tragedy waiting to happen. I have personally seen a shoot house demo of how quickly one can be disarmed. I am big man and have some martial arts experience with a staff, so I can probably handle a tussle for the rifle/shotgun, but I won't take that chance! I will ALWAYS clear or investigate a "bump" in the night with a pistol and flashlight.

    My shotgun is for hunkering down in one room and training it on a closed/locked door waiting for the dumb BG to come to me, (i.e. ambush), or for 100yrds or less,... I love my 12 gauge!! The AR is strictly for reaching out to "touch" someone on my property, long range. I am just not a big fan of the 5.56/.223 for CQB.

    Just my 2 cents.
    I agree with you, for other reasons too. Safe storage and accesibilty are two.
    My H&K USP compact 9mm, and a tactical flashlight (Dorcy) are my choice(s).

  14. #44
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SE Texas
    Posts
    1,772
    AR15 inside a house? Yes, of course, but paired with a handgun. I have cleared plenty of houses with a shotgun* and a handgun, and a few with an AR15 and handgun, while working big-city PD patrol night shift, with fellow officers helping me. If I just HAD to move through a structure by myself, with armed opponents about, I would probably want a handgun in hand. If staying put and waiting for bad guys to come to me, which is generally the better option if working without a team, I want the long gun in hand, preferably a carbine.

    Of the two, shotgun and AR15, the carbine-length AR15 is the easier to manipulate indoors. If I am the one making the rules, I will pick a carbine over a shotgun. (40 hours a week, somebody else's rules apply, and certain conditions must exist for the carbine to be uncased.)

    *As I get older, infirmities have shown me that running a pump gun is not so easy anymore. It is not recoil that is the problem, but manipulations such as reloading on the move. I don't generally carry them anymore at work, as training has become painful. Autoloading carbines make better geezer guns!

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    3,055
    The OP has obviously not gone cheap on the AR, why not go a few extra bucks and get a suppressor? That would maje a great HD carbine setup.
    Try not to screw up so bad they name the screw up after you. (Station 15 saying)

    NRA Certifed Instructor

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Home Defense......not here.
    By xXxplosive in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: June 5th, 2009, 04:22 PM
  2. 44 Mag for home defense
    By realitycramp in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: May 31st, 2008, 03:45 PM
  3. I have $550, and I need a home defense gun
    By SilenceDoGood in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: March 15th, 2008, 12:13 AM
  4. LMS Defense Home Defense - Defensive Medical COMBO / Yuba City, CA / March 8-10, 2008
    By Tony Siciliano in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: February 6th, 2008, 12:55 PM
  5. Home Defense
    By firefighter_56 in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: November 14th, 2007, 02:58 AM

Search tags for this page

ar 15 for home defense

,

ar 15 home defense

,

ar 15 home defense setup

,

ar-15 for home defense

,

ar-15 home defense

,
ar-15 home defense setup
,
ar-15 setup for home defense
,

ar15 for home defense

,

ar15 home defense

,
best ar 15 for home defense
,
home defense ar 15
,
home defense ar15
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors