AR-15: For Home Defense?

This is a discussion on AR-15: For Home Defense? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; My HD long gun is an AR and my wife's HD long gun is a Mossberg 590 12ga with buck shot. We are covered pretty ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    My HD long gun is an AR and my wife's HD long gun is a Mossberg 590 12ga with buck shot. We are covered pretty well.
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  3. #47
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    It's my last resort gun after my conventional guns (.40 and .45 pistols/12 ga. pump shotgun) have failed to do the job. I live in the city and an AR-15 would be considered too extreme to the jury and overpenetrative (even recently bought PMC X-Tac steel-tipped 5.56mm loads) in a highly populated area should I have to resort to it as my primary gun.

  4. #48
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    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

  5. #49
    Member Array fudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    We recently had a crew doing home invasions here in Corpus. There were 4 guys, at least two armed and wearing vests. I can't think of a better choice over the AR for defeating the vest, rapid fire and target transitions…. Also, less deadly after penetrating numerous walls, for those that are concerned about over penetration.

    Get some good 75 grain Hornady TAP (5.56 if you can find it - and have a 5.56 chamber - .223 will still be just as effective at any defensive range and well past 100 yards. 5.56 has about a 200 fps advantage, but that means nothing until you hit the fragmentation threshold. 5.56 also has the T2 bullet that has enhanced fragmentation, but that really won't matter much until you are at the velocity threshold for fragmentation). I have an 8" gun, a 12" and numerous sub guns, but choose to use a 16" for home defense. That will soon be an 11.5" that takes that role, but that's at least a few months away. 5.56 is a 300 yard round and in for most effective use. I've always trained to put three or four rounds center mass as fast as possible. I can do this from a low ready in roughly 1 to 1.5 seconds.

    As for clearing a house, that comes down to tactics and experience, not leading with the muzzle, staying back from the corner unless it's tight and done;t permit, etc.. There are also a number of drills on how to deal with someone grabbing your rifle, they just need to be practice. If someone goes for mine while I'm clearing my house, at the slightly-low ready, they're going to lose their knees. I've seen and done this before in force on force and it's quite effective. But, it can always go the other way. I should mention, I never leave the master bedroom without my handgun on my belt as well.

    *Edit to add - I use Magpul MS2 slings with ASAP plates on all but one of my AR's.. The other gets a Vickers two point. The main advantage to the single point for this use is seamless transitions to support side, which I think is an absolute must when clearing a home or building, especially by yourself. As little exposure as needed is always a plus. A good light is also a must.

    Recently picked up two KAC SR15's. H1 replaced with a T1 in LaRue QD (like my other one) with a KAC mount on the way, just had to wait since my guns try not to share optics, added a KAC Triple Tap (replaced Gemtech suppressor mount) and a BattleComp to the other, plus a FDE Surefire 300a with the SR07 pad behind the integrated flip up front sight instead of the E1B and E2D I had mounted on both. Ordering a Schmidt and Bender 1-8 but won't see that for about 9 months probably due to release dates.


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    Please tell me about the bolt release lever. I like that one. Thanks
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  6. #50
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    That's the MAGPUL B.A.D. Lever... about $30...
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  7. #51
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    It's my last resort gun after my conventional guns (.40 and .45 pistols/12 ga. pump shotgun) have failed to do the job. I live in the city and an AR-15 would be considered too extreme to the jury and overpenetrative (even recently bought PMC X-Tac steel-tipped 5.56mm loads) in a highly populated area should I have to resort to it as my primary gun.
    ARs with proper ammo selection (heavy OTMs like 75gr tap or mk262) will achieve sufficient penetration in tissue while having less risk of overpenetration than buckshot, pistol rounds, or slugs. The long and short of it is that any round that performs well against humans is going to blast through several layers of drywall. Using an AR with the aforementioned ammo just reduces how many layers that will be while packing a much bigger wallop than a pistol round and being easier to operate than a shotgun.

  8. #52
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    Personally, I look at it like this, close range, non-lethal hit. What has a better chance of taking the BG out of the fight; .223 or 00 buck shot?

    Even if it doesn't take them out of the fight, I believe a round of 00 is going to take them more time to get back into the fight and let's face it,....seconds count. Hence my AR sits in the safe unloaded and my 870 is locked, loaded and easily accessible.

    Just more of my humble 2 cents.

    BTW, that Magpul lever is slick! May have to invest in one of them.
    Last edited by Fastball; February 21st, 2011 at 05:45 PM. Reason: Forgot to add something.
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  9. #53
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Yep, the Magpul BAD Lever is on all my guns, even on my ambi Knight's Armament lowers. It makes easy work of malfunction drills, especially. SKD Tactical is running their "Year of the Magpul" promotion. I'm not sure what all it applies too, but with the code you get $8 off of the BAD lever. I'll post a few more pics of it tomorrow when I get a chance.

    Jonathan
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  10. #54
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    If I may, what training I received while in CAP and the sea cadets, not to mention training for work and personal classes I have taken has taught me to never attempt to clear a building without a 1 point sling that has a quick disconnec,. I also have an advantage over the right eye right hand dominant people in that as a left eye dominant shooter, i shoot rifles and tactical rifles left handed. i shoot pistols right handed, so if i am going to clear my home it is rifle or shotgun in left hand, pistol on right hip, if my rifle gets grabbed, i release my weapon, the sling will keep it attached to my body, draw my pistol and fire. obviously after id'ing my target. this creates a reaction from me that would be unexpected from the bad guy, i may shoot and loose my rifle, but it seems to me that it is better to put some rounds on target rather than lose my only defensive tool to a weapons grab. I was taught to immediatly move forward and try to raise the barrel into the tango but that seems like bad juju imo if he has a knife or blunt object in his hands to cut or strike me with
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Sweet!
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  12. #56
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    I highly recommend frangible rounds if you are going to use a high power rifle for home d. It simply limits your liability and if you were to go to court it would be much greater firepower on your side of the defense because you chose a non wall penetrating round. I know I know.
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  13. #57
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    I highly recommend frangible rounds if you are going to use a high power rifle for home d. It simply limits your liability and if you were to go to court it would be much greater firepower on your side of the defense because you chose a non wall penetrating round. I know I know.
    True frangible rounds are meant to disintegrate when they hit STEEL. They behave like ball and generally do not expand or fragment in human tissue or drywall.

  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texag View Post
    True frangible rounds are meant to disintegrate when they hit STEEL. They behave like ball and generally do not expand or fragment in human tissue or drywall.
    Bingo!
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  15. #59
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKM View Post
    I don't keep my AR at hand for HD stuff..... BUT, it's always empty chamber, 30 round mag loaded to capacity with 75gr TAP, just incase ;) I could have it ready to fire within 10-15 seconds.

    I NEVER want to clear my house, let alone with a long gun. The shotgun, within 2 seconds, it's in my hands and ready to go, but exiting to bedroom with an 18.5" barrel long gun isn't going to be easy. My USP I can in my hands within seconds. Much easier to clear a house with. I have NO formal training clearing a building. I never want to do it, though, I'm familiar with the fatal funnel, making wide corners if you can, never round a corner Hollywood style, kind of keep the pistol tucked into your chest (think holding a slung AR). Is that the offical way? Maybe not but it seems like it'd be logical. Again, no formal training. I don't want to sound like an internet commando, haha. I always tell myself, the USP is for investigating an odd sound inside the house (won't go outside). The shotgun is for defending against a KNOWN threat. Truth is, I'll grab what I can or deem needed at the moment.

    As far as self defense ammo in your AR, IMO, use the heaviest grain OTM rounds you can. I don't care if it's a 1:50 twist. HD, even with an AR will no be far enough for anything to keyhole and become unstable. If you're going to be shooting 200 yards (obviously not self defense ranges), yeah heavy grains may keyhole with an inappropriate barrel twist. Heck, at self defense ranges you'll have to aim 1.5" high anyway due to the sight height, unless you sight your AR at 7 yards ;)

    Hornady TAP in 60gr or 75gr, and Federal TRU also has some nice options. The 64gr soft-point TRU seems to have very good ballistics. Even plain old 55gr FMJ round will do. You'd be close enough that the velocity will still be high enough to create a yaw effect. I'd still use the best you can. You're not limited to 55gr FMJ.

    jonconsiglio - Nice pictures! Looks fun!
    Well said. Exactly the same plan like I use for home defense, since I have my RRA LAR-15 in condition 3, and it is the last thing I will ever use. I also have my H&K USP .40 and S&W Model 457 .45 as my handguns. For shotgun, it is Mossberg 590.

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array MNBurl's Avatar
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    If you have the room between yourself and your neighbors go ahead. I don't so the SXS 12 gauge is my choice pointing down my hallway with my M&P 40 backing it up.
    MNBurl

    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.

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