AR-15: For Home Defense? - Page 7

AR-15: For Home Defense?

This is a discussion on AR-15: For Home Defense? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I think both are good....00buck or 5.56 either should and have proven too stop the threat. Few shots from the shotty, or a controlled partial ...

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Thread: AR-15: For Home Defense?

  1. #91
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    I think both are good....00buck or 5.56 either should and have proven too stop the threat. Few shots from the shotty, or a controlled partial mag dump from the AR and a reasses.


  2. #92
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Here's a few links too take a look at. A lot of these guys are serious shooters, some LE, .mil, etc., so keep in mind that many know what they're taking about, but of course some are just nuts, like every forum has!

    Long guns for Home Defense. This is by Dr Gary Roberts (DocGKR). He is an expert in the field and well known and respected in many circles including LE and mil. - Home Defense Long Guns - M4Carbine.net Forums

    Suppressed AR - Suppressed SBR for home/property defense?? - M4Carbine.net Forums

    AR or Shotgun - AR-15 vs Shotgun inside a residence? - M4Carbine.net Forums

    Shotgun Myth for Home Defense - The great shotgun urban myth - M4Carbine.net Forums
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  3. #93
    RKM
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    Good threads!

    A suppressed AR, I'm not sure would really be of much help.

    I've been wanting to suppress my USP, for potential use inside my house. I already have hearing damage in my left ear from years ago. My first time shooting a handgun. A .22 revolver. My left ear is still ringing.... right now. I don't mess around with the idea of not using hearing protection. I can hardly hear the TV if I'm laying on my right side.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Here's a few links too take a look at. A lot of these guys are serious shooters, some LE, .mil, etc., so keep in mind that many know what they're taking about, but of course some are just nuts, like every forum has!

    Long guns for Home Defense. This is by Dr Gary Roberts (DocGKR). He is an expert in the field and well known and respected in many circles including LE and mil. - Home Defense Long Guns - M4Carbine.net Forums

    Suppressed AR - Suppressed SBR for home/property defense?? - M4Carbine.net Forums

    AR or Shotgun - AR-15 vs Shotgun inside a residence? - M4Carbine.net Forums

    Shotgun Myth for Home Defense - The great shotgun urban myth - M4Carbine.net Forums
    Good info, thanks for posting.
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  5. #95
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKM View Post
    Good threads!

    A suppressed AR, I'm not sure would really be of much help.
    If you're running a 12" + or -, adding a suppressor will bring it down to a much more tolerable level. With auditory exclusion (some say it plays a role, others don't) you still run a risk to you and others in your home, just for example. A suppressed 10.5" gun will be a good deal quieter, slightly easier to manage for follow up shots and have no fireball like it may depending on your muzzle device. Also, if you're running a 10.5" DI gun, it will probably run more reliably suppressed, especially under the positions you may find yourself in when it comes to a self defense scenario.

    Hearing protection is a must in almost all situations with short ARs, but even with the electronic models I'd be afraid I wouldn't be able to hear the things I need to during this type of situation. The suppressed ARs will still shake you up inside, but it's much easier to deal with that non-suppressed.

    I run a lot of guns suppressed and I see a benefit on shorter guns. Sure, you lose some maneuverability, but you gain the ability to hear after shots being fired. Again, auditory exclusion may play a role, but it also may not. If it doesn't and you've just fired a burst into a BG, you may not hear your spouse, the police, a second BG in your home, etc. Of course, there's an argument for everything!

    I'm happy right now using one of my 16" SR15's and my Glock 17 or M&P for home defense. The way my AR's are set up, they hardly move, are not obnoxious I can work my house with it almost as well as I can with my 12" gun. In the next few months I'll have my SR15 CQB which is 11.5". I'll probably go with the Triple Tap and NT4 again, but I'm considering one of those small Surefire suppressors for my BCM/DD Mk 18 build. The Micro only adds 2.6" and the Mini adds 3.6", so with the Mini (since the Micro is only to be used on 14.5"+ barrels) on the Mk 18 it'll be close to, or under, 14.5" total if those number are correct.. Hopefully I'll get that one done some time soon.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Good info, thanks for posting.
    No problem
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastball View Post
    Yes , but a shotgun with 00, will have a better chance of catching the throat/head, than a single projectile at COM.

    Wouldn't hurt to practice a slug change over next time at the range, too.
    This is a very bad way of looking at it, but I understand why many do.

    I don't buy into that train of thought and MOST CERTAINLY would not rely on it or use it in any way when making a decision. At 5 to 10 yards (inside home - usually less though) there would not be enough spread to make that much difference. Even if it did, I can throw a burst of five or six 5.56 ACCURATELY in less time than it takes for me to fire 2 rounds from a shotgun, and even three or four rounds of 5.56 will be just as devastating as one round of 00 buck in his eyes. And if I can't accurately place multiple hits with an AR in a very short time at those short distances, I NEED MORE TRAINING.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  8. #98
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    Bad way of looking at it?? Really??

    Because I look at it to the fact I have never been in a gunfight. I really don't know if I'll soil myself, (doubt it, but maybe keep some Depends on hand), or turn into Rambo.

    I train, (not as much as I'd like), and other than the weapon I choose, that's what I have to rely on for defending myself and my loved one's. I feel the shotgun gives me a much better edge of staying on target in case I'm shaking from the rush of adrenaline, than with multiple yanks of the trigger on an AR or trying to get sight alignment for COM hit.

    I personally want every advantage I can get if a threat comes bursting into my home/bedroom and the devestation of a shotgun along with it's better chance of point/shoot gives me that over an AR.

    BTW, if your really concerned about the BG's wearing vests, get the crossbow out.
    You never see a motorcycle parked ouside a psychiatrist's office!

  9. #99
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    No doubt, soiling yourself is a viable option and one I favor myself!

    What I mean is that it's bad to look at it like the shotgun will actually give you any advantage. I wish you were nearby and I could take you to the range and put you on a cole different drills to illustrate what I mean. It's not as bad as the myth of "racking the shotgun will have them fleeing" but it's in the same category. I hear this ALLthe time and don't get me wrong, I understand how one could think these things, but the reality is that it's just not true.

    At defensive distances, we're not going to see much spread and definitely not enough to be effective, we're not bird hunting here. If you really want every advantage you can get, that's where the AR really shines. Seriously, I'm not trying to dog your opinion here, but I've been through all of this and I have a lot of time on these guns in training where I see the major advantages. I'd love to have you, or anyone thinking the SG is where it's at, to spend a few days a week for the next month with me at the range. I'd be willing to bet that opinions would change. It's all about what works for you and what you have the most training on, but if we can get a lot of training on another type of gun that's maybe more effective, I bet choices would change. This would then give you an even greater advantage.

    There's a reason almost ever single entry team uses an AR over any other gun. These reasons can definitely carry over to the civi/individual that doesn't have a team with him. No matter how you look at it and compare, if you truly have equal training on all three main options here, the advantage will almost always go to the AR with the shotgun trailing quite a distance behind. I know many will argue it, but that's just how it is, everything else being equal.

    Let me add that I'm not saying anyone is wrong here. I'm just pointing out that the AR can give you an advantage over the others if you train on it. I have a lot of other prions, including a full auto MP5 for example, but I still choose the AR for it's benefits. I'm sure there are guys with shotguns out there that will run circles around me and my AR, so please don't get me wrong here.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  10. #100
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    Jon, if you ever find yourself running out of room in your house for all your wonderful toys, I would be more than happy to store a few of them for you at no cost in my safe. Not gurenteeing that I won't run them, but when you come back to pick em up, they will be cleaned and shined for you
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  11. #101
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    I chose a Mini-14 for home defense because I found it offered an advantage to me. Wife bunkers with the 12 gauge I move to secure my son's room with the Mini-14. Lights are attached to both guns. If I go to investigate a bump its my Glock 30SF in my hand.
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  12. #102
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    I wish we were closer Jon, I would love to get some more training on my AR and I'm sure hitting the range with you would be a huge asset to me. My AR is indeed my weakest weapon, so to speak, in my arsenal.

    To be honest, I'm really just not a fan of the controls. They just don't seem to be in the most ergonomic spots. I feel I have to shift my grip WAAAAY too much just to operate the weapon effectively. Granted, more training would help to become fluid, but I'd still be shifting that grip to operate the safety and bolt release, (although that B.A.D. lever from Magpul looks like the #$%@), and I just don't like all that "wiggling".

    My 870........it's all right there and I can run that thing dead dog tired. I don't give a rat's hinnie if the sound of chambering a round intimidates anyone. I don't rely on my shotgun for intimidation, I rely on it to stop a threat ,......dead! Years ago I knew a guy on the local entry team and if I recall their lead man had a shotty and not just for blowing locks, it's what he went in with. That's where it would have to be; you wouldn't want the officer with the 12ga behind you, right?

    If I'm clearing a house, I want a pistol, unless I suddenly find an MP5 or a KRISS in my safe, but until then, always a pistol! To me the long gun is for hunkering down, for defending from someone trying to gain enterance into my home itself or for defending myself outside on my property.
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  13. #103
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    I spent the most of my first 22 years in Pittsburgh, by the way.

    I don't disagree with you at all. Though the AR is not 10 times the gun, is is maybe 25% more gun and that's an advantage none the less. If you dedicated a couple months to the AR, set the controls the way you like, and put your heart into it, you may see it different, though I'm just glad to see people taking the initiative to own firearms and take their defense seriously, that's what's most important. I'd rather have a guy fighting for his life with a 9mm next to me than a guy with an AR without any heart in the fight.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    Jon, if you ever find yourself running out of room in your house for all your wonderful toys, I would be more than happy to store a few of them for you at no cost in my safe. Not gurenteeing that I won't run them, but when you come back to pick em up, they will be cleaned and shined for you
    I'm so lazy, half of them are just in cases in our bedroom, filthy and in need of a serious once-over! My wife is always on me to at least keep the "non-defense" guns in the safe instead of the floor!

    Any good long ranges up your way? I may be headed up there for a week or two, later this year.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #105
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    the best public range i know is Camp Atterbury, its right by the base of the same name and they have a 100 yard range. Honestly thats not really that long but it's long enough to be fun. They can take everything up to 50 bmg, and allow any kind of weapons except class three automatics. They also have an amazing shotgun range. Never shot on their pistol range, but it looked nice. Let me know when your headed up, maybe we could meet for some range time.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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