Why are short magazine tubes 'standard' on defensive shotguns?

Why are short magazine tubes 'standard' on defensive shotguns?

This is a discussion on Why are short magazine tubes 'standard' on defensive shotguns? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; On many pump shotguns the magazine tube is much shorter than the barrel. Why isn't the magazine tube made longer on most shotguns to allow ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: Why are short magazine tubes 'standard' on defensive shotguns?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central, VA
    Posts
    534

    Why are short magazine tubes 'standard' on defensive shotguns?

    On many pump shotguns the magazine tube is much shorter than the barrel. Why isn't the magazine tube made longer on most shotguns to allow for more ammo?

    Most 18" or 18.5" barreled shotguns come standard with a short magazine tube, but 20" guns often come standard with a barrel-length tube.

    I know the tube can be extended on many guns and some come with an extended tube, but why isn't a barrel length tube the norm instead of a special option especially on short barreled guns meant for defensive use?

    Bobo
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
    ~John Adams


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,786
    depends on the shottie, mine is an 18 inch with full barrel magazine tube for 6+1 rounds
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member
    Array Xader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,564
    Most of the "tactical" 870 models have barrel-length tubes, though I've noticed that this isn't the case with most 590s

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central, VA
    Posts
    534
    Maybe to put it another way... Why would anyone prefer a short tube over a long tube?

    I know that some feel that a long, fully loaded tube ruins the balance -- in that case, just don't fully load it!

    The difference in cost to manufacture of a long tube over a short tube surely can't be the reason. The added cost of a long tube is probably less than five dollars.

    Is it tradition? Or some like the aesthetics of a short tube over a long tube?

    If I were to become a shotgun manufacturer, would I lose a lot of sales if all my guns had long tubes? I don't think so.

    This just bugs me because I have seen so many really nice shotguns for a very good value lately, but for some reason they all have short tubes.

    I just don't get it.

    Bobo
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
    ~John Adams

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida Treasure Coast
    Posts
    3,211

    Cool

    Sporting shotguns have shorter tubes because of limits placed on shotguns used for hunting. Magazine followers that reduce the magazine capacity from four to two are required in some states. The combat shotguns that I see set up for that purpose and that purpose only usually have extended magazines. My 870 Wingmaster was originally a sporting arm until I made it more combat friendly. For me four in the magazine and one in the chamber is adequate.

    P26093812.jpgP26094308.jpg

    Poly Choke with Pro Porting, Side Saddle, Tactical Sling, Full stock w/pistol grip and brushed nickle finish.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  6. #6
    New Member Array GDCooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    Sporting shotguns have shorter tubes because of limits placed on shotguns used for hunting.
    3 shells is the maximum allowable capacity for nearly all waterfowl hunting, and some states have maximums for other types of hunting as well, to prevent excessive harvest. There are also daily limits on game harvest of almost every type, so there's no reason to be walking around with 10 shot capacity, or whatever. Can't think of a time when i ever could have used all 5, need to practice your shooting or be more selective if you do.

    So, larger capacity would only mean more weight to carry around, and probably worse gun balance, for absolutely no reason.

  7. #7
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Gastonville
    Posts
    6,741
    The Mossberg 500 is made differently than an 870. To make the tube longer on a 500 would change how they are manufactured. Add in the fact that, while to you there is no advantage, a company that stamps out 200,000 shotguns a year saves money by using less material.

    That extra bit of metal tube costs a lot more money over the long haul.
    Last edited by atctimmy; March 2nd, 2011 at 06:50 PM.
    A word of warning; if you can afford to do more Bear does not recommend giving your wife two pieces of bubble gum for her birthday.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central, VA
    Posts
    534
    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    Sporting shotguns have shorter tubes because of limits placed on shotguns used for hunting. Magazine followers that reduce the magazine capacity from four to two are required in some states. The combat shotguns that I see set up for that purpose and that purpose only usually have extended magazines. My 870 Wingmaster was originally a sporting arm until I made it more combat friendly. For me four in the magazine and one in the chamber is adequate.
    Quote Originally Posted by GDCooper View Post
    3 shells is the maximum allowable capacity for nearly all waterfowl hunting, and some states have maximums for other types of hunting as well, to prevent excessive harvest. There are also daily limits on game harvest of almost every type, so there's no reason to be walking around with 10 shot capacity, or whatever. Can't think of a time when i ever could have used all 5, need to practice your shooting or be more selective if you do.

    So, larger capacity would only mean more weight to carry around, and probably worse gun balance, for absolutely no reason.
    I understand the reasoning for "hunting" and "sporting" guns, but my question concerns "defensive" guns.

    Old School - I agree that four in the magazine and one in the chamber may be adequate, but if you were buying a brand new or used gun for defensive purposes wouldn't five to eight plus one be better for only five bucks more?


    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    The Mossberg 500 is made differently than an 870. To make the tube longer on a 500 would change how the are manufactured. Add in the fact that, while to you there is no advantage, a company that stamps out 200,000 shotguns a year saves money by using less material.

    That extra bit of metal tube costs a lot more money over the long haul.
    I doubt that the extra five dollars per gun that the manufacturer may have to charge would reduce their total sales very much if at all.
    They could also offer short barreled guns for those that want them at a five dollar per gun savings. In that case I doubt that there would be many takers for the shorties.

    Also, if Mossberg loses sales to Remington because they don't provide longer tubes (as in my case) how much will that cost them in the long haul? Answer; A lot more than the five bucks they don't lose because they charge more for the longer tube anyway.

    Bobo
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
    ~John Adams

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida Treasure Coast
    Posts
    3,211
    Remington 870 Tactical 12g, 18.5", W/Ghost Ring Sights

    If I was in the market to buy a defensive shotgun then this is what I would get.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  10. #10
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Gastonville
    Posts
    6,741
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob O View Post
    I doubt that the extra five dollars per gun that the manufacturer may have to charge would reduce their total sales very much if at all.
    They could also offer short barreled guns for those that want them at a five dollar per gun savings. In that case I doubt that there would be many takers for the shorties.

    Also, if Mossberg loses sales to Remington because they don't provide longer tubes (as in my case) how much will that cost them in the long haul? Answer; A lot more than the five bucks they don't lose because they charge more for the longer tube anyway.
    As with any product there are a million upgrades Mossberg could do to make the gun just a little bit nicer. They could add a metal safety and add $5. They could add a longer mag tube and add $5. They could use steel for the trigger guard and add $10. They could use better quality steel for all of the internals and add $25. They could put Ghost rings sights instead of a bead sight and add $65.

    That's why Mossberg also makes the 590. They make two shotguns, one that is good and affordable with a compromise here and there. The other is a full out balls to the wall Mil Spec crushing machine. You pay more for the latter.

    mossy 1 Medium Web view.jpg
    A word of warning; if you can afford to do more Bear does not recommend giving your wife two pieces of bubble gum for her birthday.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central, VA
    Posts
    534
    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    Remington 870 Tactical 12g, 18.5", W/Ghost Ring Sights

    If I was in the market to buy a defensive shotgun then this is what I would get.
    Now that's precisely what a basic defensive shotgun should be! (Although a bit pricey).

    Why don't others like Mossberg, Maverick, Charles Daly, Interstate, Howa, etc. who make lower priced guns do the same?
    More people (I for one) who would own a defensive shotgun would shoot it only occasionally, and just have it sitting ready for what we hope never comes 99% of the time. So ruggedness and the ability last through thousands of rounds is not an issue.

    The ability to function reliably, hit the intended target, with as much stopping power as possible, in any light level, hopefully one occasion only, with a small monetary investment, by a novice shooter, should be the basic criteria for a defensive shotgun for civilian use.

    An important part of this equation is "stopping power" which would be partially provided by a fully loaded long tube.

    The Mossberg 590 that atctimmy mentioned would be much better for LEO or military use. Most of the rugged "add-ons" that atctiimmy talks about would be more for professinal than civilian use (except maybe the ghost ring sights and long tube).


    Bobo
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
    ~John Adams

  12. #12
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Gastonville
    Posts
    6,741
    Why don't others like Mossberg, Maverick, Charles Daly, Interstate, Howa, etc. who make lower priced guns do the same?
    More people (I for one) who would own a defensive shotgun would shoot it only occasionally, and just have it sitting ready for what we hope never comes 99% of the time. So ruggedness and the ability last through thousands of rounds is not an issue.
    Bob I don't think you understand how a production line works. Mossberg probably makes 800,000 model 500 shotguns each year. 80% of those shotguns are of a sporting variety. To specialize the production of the HD 500s to your liking would cause them to have to shut down production, retool and start making the modified gun. The retooling would take days and then the first run guns would need to be perfected. It would slow down production of the 500 by weeks and drive up the cost of every 500 they sell.

    Quality at an affordable price is what Mossberg's business model is all about. These changes would go against the company's entire business model and cause production delays of their bread and butter product (the 500).

    A second point to consider is that in your above post you talked about "the average" home owners needs. Well most shotgun buyers are sportsmen. One of the best features about the 500 is that you can change barrels to better suit your needs. My 500 has a 18.5 inch HD barrel, a 28 inch duck hunting barrel, a 24 inch turkey hunting barrel and a 24 inch rifled slug barrel. This one shotgun can do it all for me depending on what season it is. I just switch the barrel and off I go. I am very pleased to not have to buy 4 different shotguns.
    A word of warning; if you can afford to do more Bear does not recommend giving your wife two pieces of bubble gum for her birthday.

  13. #13
    New Member Array GDCooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    11
    I understand the reasoning for "hunting" and "sporting" guns, but my question concerns "defensive" guns.
    Sorry, Bob O, I misunderstood your question. The defensive shotgun I have, a BPS which isn't seen very often, DOES have an extended tube for more capacity. And has a shot barrel with a fixed cylinder choke, i.e. no interchangeable chokes, as appropriate to its purpose.

    The correct answer to your question is this

    Bob I don't think you understand how a production line works. Mossberg probably makes 800,000 model 500 shotguns each year. 80% of those shotguns are of a sporting variety. To specialize the production of the HD 500s to your liking would cause them to have to shut down production, retool and start making the modified gun. The retooling would take days and then the first run guns would need to be perfected. It would slow down production of the 500 by weeks and drive up the cost of every 500 they sell.
    and desire to use the gun for sporting purposes, as acttimmy posted.

    Not many buyers will "pay" for a defensive shotgun "done right", which is a reason why the BPS defensive shotgun isn't common. Browning went cheaper on the barrel with the plain tube, made up for it somewhat with the longer tube to be more suited to purpose, but list was still too high to be a success. I only bought because I'm a Browning fan, AND more importantly found it NEW for $200....

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central, VA
    Posts
    534
    atctimmy and GDCooper,

    The 'production' explanation makes some sense to me now. I my mind I had the idea that the market for shotguns primarily for defensive use was about one-third of the total sales for all shotguns. I didn't realize that such a small percentage of shotguns are purchased for defensive use as you indicate.

    Thanks everyone, for hanging in there with me until I got it!

    Bobo
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
    ~John Adams

  15. #15
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Gastonville
    Posts
    6,741
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob O View Post
    atctimmy and GDCooper,

    The 'production' explanation makes some sense to me now. I my mind I had the idea that the market for shotguns primarily for defensive use was about one-third of the total sales for all shotguns. I didn't realize that such a small percentage of shotguns are purchased for defensive use as you indicate.

    Thanks everyone, for hanging in there with me until I got it!

    Bobo
    Yep, no sweat. That's why Mossberg makes two lines of shotguns. The 590 series is made with combat/self defense in mind and they have all the features folks want in a fighting gun. The problem with the 590 series is that they are expensive. I'd really like to get one but I just don't want to shell out 400 bucks. :)
    A word of warning; if you can afford to do more Bear does not recommend giving your wife two pieces of bubble gum for her birthday.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. SBS vs standard 18.5" defensive shotguns
    By zacii in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: October 15th, 2010, 11:00 PM
  2. Defensive rifle or defensive Shotgun?
    By DMan in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: January 26th, 2009, 09:35 PM
  3. Looking at ARs and Shotguns...
    By Barbary in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: September 9th, 2008, 02:21 AM
  4. I'm confused short barrel shotguns
    By Maverickx50 in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: December 20th, 2007, 10:20 AM
  5. Short Barreled Handgun Shotguns
    By QKShooter in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: June 27th, 2006, 04:20 PM

Search tags for this page

crow hunting
,
extended mag tube mossberg 500
,
extended magazine tube for mossberg 500
,
extended magazine tube mossberg 500
,
how to shorten a shotgun magazine tube
,
magazine tube longer than barrel
,
mossberg 500 extended mag tube
,
mossberg 500 extended magazine
,

mossberg 500 extended magazine tube

,
mossberg 500 short magazine tube
,
shotgun magazine longer than barrel
,
shotguns with magazines
Click on a term to search for related topics.