What does the average guy do with an AR?

This is a discussion on What does the average guy do with an AR? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Ever since the M-16 became standard issue (I was about 12 at the time) I despised it for its looks and its puny caliber. Owning ...

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Thread: What does the average guy do with an AR?

  1. #16
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    Ever since the M-16 became standard issue (I was about 12 at the time) I despised it for its looks and its puny caliber. Owning one was just out of the question. Then once I grew up I saw more and more young guys with ARs at the range, and I thought "that's cool - young guys with [current] military rifles - that's today's militia." Eight years ago I bought one, put a couple hundred rounds through it, and... that was it. A few years later I took professional training in how to use it, and that turned me around completely. Now I own two... well broken-in, a few dozen mags, a couple thousand rounds on hand, and I'm looking forward to my fourth training class.

    If you adopt the Swiss approach of "every home is armed and trained" you can easily get your head around bringing an AR home.
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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    As someone who recently purchased an AR-15, I did so just because. While I don't fully buy into TEOTWAWKI, or SHTF during my lifetime, I figure it's better to have one already than try to get one in a hurry... if they are still available to the public. I figure it's like an insurance policy. And it's fun to shoot.

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Very well said.
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

    Never argue with an idiot - they'll bring you down to their level then beat you with experience.

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnareMan View Post
    What does the average guy do with an AR?

    The "Average guy" does not have an AR, they are mostly above average.
    Stubborn and DefConGun like this.
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  6. #20
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    I think the OP has a hang up about the size. Mine is actually pretty compact as I bring in the length of pull and keep in compact to my body. They are not that big and are pretty light and nimble (unless you have too much crap hanging on it).
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  7. #21
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I hunt with mine.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    IMHO:

    For clearing a home = handgun, since it can be used with 1 hand, leaving the other for things like grabbing the kids, phone, door knobs, flashlight, etc

    Final defensive line once you are in your safe room = shotgun

    Area defense around your home (looters, rioters, etc) = rifle (due to better accuracy than a shotgun)

    One advantage to a rifle is accuracy - so if you are faced with looters in your neighborhood and feel a need to open fire, you can be more accurate with a rifle than with a shotgun. If there are other homes in the area, that is certainly a factor. My rifles wear scopes for this reason.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  9. #23
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Such a weapon would be cool to have, but I think they are kind of expensive. But I've had people tell me that I should be one (or more) as an investment in case they are banned in the future. In which case, I can sell them for a lot of money to the right people.

    I would also agree, in the highly unlikely event of some kind of meltdown of the government where anarchy reigned in the streets for a period of time, the AR would make a nice gun for picking off potential threats before they even make it to my house.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    It's been addressed what people do with their ARs, so I'll touch mostly on why it's superior to the handgun for most applications.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnareMan View Post
    I guess a lot of my "confusion" over what I'd do with one obviously stems from the fact that I have no experience with them. Maybe if I'd been using only throwing stars for a long time I'd wonder would I would do with a hand gun but I'm very comfortable with handguns now. To me with no AR experience the size of it is what seems would make it less versatile. It seems like a big gun to use to clear my smallish (~1300sq ft) house and yard where the longest shot I'd probably have to take would be maybe 25ft. But maybe after I go take some tactical rifle courses I'll feel different.
    I think what the problem may be is you're taking distance into consideration. A rifle is superior in almost every way. I can clear a house with a 16" AR just fine, though I prefer a 10.5" or 11.5". You need to have proper training, just like with any weapon, before deciding if it's for you or not. It may not be, I don't know, but you need to know what you're doing with it and see it in action before ruling it out.

    Let me put it this way and maybe you'll see it a little clearer. If I have to shoot someone breaking into my home with a handgun, any standard claliber, I'm essentially punching holes straight through. Sure, hollowpoints will expand to just under an inch in ideal conditions (Federal HST 230 grain or Ranger T, for example) and depending on a number of factors like body mass, drugs, vest maybe?, insane amount of adrenaline, those so-so placed shots may or may not take your opponent out of the fight. Often times there will stil be a bit of fight left. I train to fire 3 or 4 shots center mass with handguns and rifles.

    Now, let's look at a 75 grain TAP. We're looking at about 2,600 fps. When that projectile enters the body, you essentially have small explosions. The bullet will immediately start to yaw then separate at the cannelure. Smaller pieces will then break off in travel in all directions. On top of that, this is where we can actually talk about hydrostatic shock, for example. The amount of energy from that round will devastate anything within two inches, give or take. With a handgun, in order to sever the aorta, you need to actually hit it. With a 5.56, you need to come close to it and the fragments or the shock itself can damage it.

    I may be explaining it less than optimally, but hopefully you get the idea. Paul Howe teaches 4 to center mass as fast as you can accurately. There are very, very few that would have any fight left when using something like 75 grain TAP or mk262. Four 9mm or 45, which is harder to fire accurately at speed and under extreme stress at distances as short as 5 yards, may or may not stop the bad guy. We had a string of home invasions here a year or two ago. Four men, at least two armed and all with vests, we're kicking doors in while people slept. I'm fighting either way whether it's one tweaked out scumbag or four men on a mission. I'd much prefer my rifle in almost any situation. I'd also very likely have my handgun as well.

    I almost shot a guy last year that I walked out on while he was working on one of my windows. He started to walk away when I opened the door, I yelled something and he turned and came at me with a little crowbar or screwdriver. The thread is here somewhere. I drew my gun and almost fired when he turned and took off. The point is, most likely I'll have my handgun as it'll be unexpected. With that time, I woke up at 3am and decided to walk outside for a cigarette. We live in a great neighborhood and many have a false sense of security here.

    Had I heard a noise, I would have grabbed my rifle. In my situation, I don't have the luxury of staying put. I have two kids, bot on opposite sides (and floors) of the house. I have to leave our bedroom as I'm not taking any chances with my children. Even if I moved them to closer bedrooms, I'd still need to leave our bedroom to get to them.

    One more thing, the 5.56 round is much less likely to be AS deadly after penetrating an interior wall. That's not my main concern, but many consider that as a primary concern. A hollowpoint 9mm will penetrate numerous wall and still have the potential to inflict serious injury. After just one wall, the 5.56 becomes much less effective and fragments. Still deadly but not near as deadly as buckshot, slugs or any duty handgun round.

    Here's a few threads you may find useful

    This will tell you everything you need to know about .223 and 5.56 - http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-....htm#expanding

    - this small part of the above linked page will show and explain what a 5.56 will do - http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-...or.htm#fbispec

    A great PDF by Dr Gary Roberts (DocGKR) - http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Do...s_2008NDIA.pdf

    Home defense long guns - http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44869

    Best choices of self defense ammo - http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De..._FAQ/index.htm

    5.56 terminal ballistics from this thread - http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=22323

    Last edited by jonconsiglio; May 23rd, 2011 at 02:56 PM.
    azchevy likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  11. #25
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    Jon, any photos of your ARs handy? I remember your handguns being pretty eye-popping.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cammo girl View Post
    Jon, any photos of your ARs handy? I remember your handguns being pretty eye-popping.
    Here's a few -

    Post 225 in the AR pic thread - *Official DC AR15 picture thread*

    Posts 236 and 239 of AR pic thread - *Official DC AR15 picture thread*

    My most used, one of my Knight's Armament SR15's. These pics aren't as nice as my handguns, sorry! My 7.62's are floating around here somewhere as well. I'm finishing up a mk18 mod 1 and an 11.5" BCM with the URX II rails like those on the SR15's. I recently stopped using the AFG's and went with a stubby Tango Down and Gear Sector vert grips and also waiting on two LaRue FUG vert grips to be used in their shortest configuration. Also doing away with the ASAP plates for Noveske and/or DD QD end plates. I've been using my Vickers/BFG VCAS slings much more lately but still use the MS2's depending on what I'm doing.

    bigdog44 likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    I have two.
    One has an aimpoint & 3x magnifier, the other iron sights.
    I took them to the range to sight them in, & have not taken them out of the safe since.

    I have them in case I ever need them I guess.
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    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I do something with mine every day. They're fired at least two or three times a week. Same goes for my handguns.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #29
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    Thanks for that thread link to the AR photos. How in the did I miss THAT?? Too much time on cooking blogs.

  16. #30
    Member Array TheGiant's Avatar
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    A hangun is only used to get you to your Rifle.

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