What do you guys think of this?

What do you guys think of this?

This is a discussion on What do you guys think of this? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm having a hard time rationalizing a $1000 scope for my DM type AR if I'm only reaching out to 800yds at the absolute max ...

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Thread: What do you guys think of this?

  1. #1
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    What do you guys think of this?

    I'm having a hard time rationalizing a $1000 scope for my DM type AR if I'm only reaching out to 800yds at the absolute max (probably more like 600). I was wondering what you brainiacs think about this :



    Weaver Tactical Grand Slam Rifle Scope 3-10x 40mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments Mil-Dot Reticle Matte - MidwayUSA


    ETA: It's not that I wouldn't like to have a Nightforce or similar type scope, I just can't afford one. Midway has this scope on sale right now for $100 less than the normal price of $400.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.


  2. #2
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    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
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    What kind of features are you requiring for your scope? Are the mil-dot, mil adjustments, and adjustable turrets all required?

    EDIT: What kind of long range guy are you? Do you zero your rifle in, and then utilize hold-over to shoot, or so you do the calculations and make adjustments to the scope to get the round to hit where you want. They are two very different schools of thought, that require different kinds of scopes.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
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  3. #3
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    I'm a novice past 300. I shoot fairly often out to 300 yds and never beyond. My friend and I are building a 550 yard range to shoot on and I plan to learn quite a bit more about my preferences this summer. The reason I'm building this gun and also the longer shooting range is to develope and hone my shooting skill.

    At 300 or less I have always used hold over. It's just not enough drop to really worry about dialing it in. This scope is mil/mil and I would like to learn how to use it properly, to adjust for both distance/wind and to range with it.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I'd say keep your eyes open on the EE's on the m4 forums for a used high quality optic. The difference between an ok optic and a great one can make it a much better experience for you when you're at the range, whether 200 yards or 800. If you spend $400, you may upgrade later and sell this one for half of what you paid. If you buy the better one first, you may not need to upgrade at all.

    It doesn't sound like you need this by this afternoon, so I'd suggest throwing a few bucks a week in an account and go from there. You could probably pick up a used Leupold Mark 4 for far less than a grand. I'd hold out for a Nightforce or even an S&B or US Optics.

    Just my thoughts. I know how money is tight for a lot of us, so in situations like this I'd rather save a while than buy a lesser quality product that I may end up replacing later.

    I enjoy using the mil dots and like the process. I'm in no way an expert n the matter but can point you in the right direction if you need some info.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  5. #5
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    OK, thanks Jon. My problem is that I'm saving all of my extra cash for the upper. Basically what I can do is get a great upper or great glass, but not both. At least not this year. I was planning on spending almost all of my available funds on the upper. This one:

    BCM SS410™ 18" Rifle Length Upper Receiver Group w/ VTAC TRX 13" Handguard 1/8 Twist
    Last edited by atctimmy; May 29th, 2011 at 01:26 AM. Reason: zombie attack
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I'd suggest sticking with a 16" Middy as you won't lose any accuracy and with mils you won't notice any difference with bullet drop. Just my 2 cents. Then I guess I'd get the scope you linked earlier.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  7. #7
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    Why 16 instead of 18? I was thinking that 18 would be a nice compromise between short/light and long/higher velocity. Thoughts?

    ETA: I already have a 16 inch carbine length M&P.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array zeppelin03's Avatar
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    I can't say anything on the scope, but your logic seems sound. I would rather have a gun to shoot than really nice optics with nothing to put it on.

  9. #9
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    Thanks Zepp. Who's the cat?
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array zeppelin03's Avatar
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    My cat Penelope. I'm figured its about time to get an avatar. Anything zeppelin related would have been to obvious, so I avoided that route. My girlfriend describes her as my nagging wife, so I figured I would show the old lady off.

  11. #11
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    The velocity won't change much from 16" to 18" to 20". Actually the shorter barrel is stiffer than the longer one's, so they deflect less as the bullet passes through it. There are lots of guys shooting 600, 800, even 1000 yards with M4's. I'd use some of the $$$ you're saving for the upper and put it in the scope, you want, then use the rest for lots of ammo.

    Have fun...
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  12. #12
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    I'm a little skeptical of 5.56 out past 300 yards, especially in an AR... I think you're going to find that pretty challenging.

    My shooting buddy just completed his 2nd & 3rd long-range shooting courses at Storm Mountain this past week, and he called me with the spoken AAR as he was driving home. Past 300 yards, doping the wind becomes logarithmically more important with range and the .22 cal bullets are particularly susceptible to wind. However... you run what ya brung. Your skills will improve with practice at increased range. Get good at known distance, then move to unknown distance. Shoot with a spotter and a decent spotting scope and take copious notes.

    As to your choice of glass, Nightforce seems to be the ne plus ultra for LR shooting but I think your choice of the affordable Weaver is sound. Better the glass you can afford than none at all!
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    ATC, I agree with Jon here. Save upand do it right, get exactly what you want and don't compromise. You will be more satisfied in the long run.

    One thing I have learned is there is no substitute for quality. You can get the best and pay once, or, pay again and again to compensate for not doing it right the first time.
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    Do yourself a favor and look at Nikon Monarch optics...I have them on all my hunting guns. They have very clear glass and work very well.
    Other than that I think you should be OK with the Weaver for now, if thats what you want.


    Amazon.com: Nikon Monarch Riflescope 2.5-10x42 (Matte Nikoplex): Sports & Outdoors
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    I'm a little skeptical of 5.56 out past 300 yards, especially in an AR... I think you're going to find that pretty challenging.

    My shooting buddy just completed his 2nd & 3rd long-range shooting courses at Storm Mountain this past week, and he called me with the spoken AAR as he was driving home. Past 300 yards, doping the wind becomes logarithmically more important with range and the .22 cal bullets are particularly susceptible to wind. However... you run what ya brung. Your skills will improve with practice at increased range. Get good at known distance, then move to unknown distance. Shoot with a spotter and a decent spotting scope and take copious notes.

    As to your choice of glass, Nightforce seems to be the ne plus ultra for LR shooting but I think your choice of the affordable Weaver is sound. Better the glass you can afford than none at all!
    I could give you first hand anecdotal experience of 5.56 rounds performing well at beyond that range. Especially in heavier bullet weights (like the 77gr). Every Marine still qualifies out to 500 meters on man sized targets. We also have multiple 5.56 weapon systems with effective ranges beyond 500 meters. The round isn't ideal, but it can do it's job if the shooter does there. I would personally rather have a .308, but a DM style 5.56 is still on my wish list, for interchangeability with my M-4gery.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

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    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

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