Question About a Military Sniper Technique

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    Question About a Military Sniper Technique

    This is a question don't have an answer for.

    I have seen where military snipers are employing a technique I think they call it the loop hole or key hole technique.

    A sniper from a distance of about 3 yards fires through a very small opening such as a gap in a concrete block wall. This conceals the sniper and if the shot is successful it is nearly impossible to detect where the shot came from.

    Now here is the question. The gap in the wall is not much wider than the bullet itself. The bullet is traveling at only slightly more than the muzzle velocity where it enters the gap in the wall.

    When passing through a gap such as an 8" block wall, would that not create a vortex similar to a carburetor jet or wind passing between two large buildings? It would seem to me that the ballistics would be altered, perhaps even creating an accelerated bullet velocity after exiting through the vortex gap.

    Anyone?
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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    EDIT - looks to be a touchy subject

    http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Number=1355161
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    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    This tactic has been used for urban combat for a long time, so my guess would be no.
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    Ballistics is a science just like physics. Sometimes the two have common interests. Sometimes not. Accepting both as individual sciences helps with understanding. Attempting to combine them generally doesn't work out easily.

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    Maybe this technique works, I think I even saw an episode of NCIS where it was used. However I see a flaw in it. How can you aim at the target since the barrel is pointed at this narrow gap, but the scope being 1-2 inches above the muzzle would show nothing but a wall?
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    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    This is a question don't have an answer for.

    I have seen where military snipers are employing a technique I think they call it the loop hole or key hole technique.

    A sniper from a distance of about 3 yards fires through a very small opening such as a gap in a concrete block wall. This conceals the sniper and if the shot is successful it is nearly impossible to detect where the shot came from.

    Now here is the question. The gap in the wall is not much wider than the bullet itself. The bullet is traveling at only slightly more than the muzzle velocity where it enters the gap in the wall.

    When passing through a gap such as an 8" block wall, would that not create a vortex similar to a carburetor jet or wind passing between two large buildings? It would seem to me that the ballistics would be altered, perhaps even creating an accelerated bullet velocity after exiting through the vortex gap.

    Anyone?
    I missed this part of your OP. This technique as I understand it uses a larger hole so FOF is larger. hole sizes seem to be 10" and up depending on the trigger man FOF. So I would answer, clearly no. Same as a bullet passing close to a rock wall or vehicle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    The gap in the wall is not much wider than the bullet itself. The bullet is traveling at only slightly more than the muzzle velocity where it enters the gap in the wall.
    I suspect it is traveling at, or just below, MV.
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    The hole is larger than you think. From what I understand the hole is about the size of a softball on up to the size of a volleyball.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Ballistics is a science just like physics. Sometimes the two have common interests. Sometimes not. Accepting both as individual sciences helps with understanding. Attempting to combine them generally doesn't work out easily.
    External ballistics IS physics - no more, no less.
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    I believe most snipers using the technique are using existing holes in the walls. Therefore the diameter and shape of the hole will vary significantly. They have to have a hole large enough so they can see with whatever optic they are using. Also the larger the hole the larger their field of view and field of fire is going to be.

    If they were using a hole, say the size of a silver dollar, they would only be able to engage targets which are in a very narrow cone of fire.

    The main advantage to shooting through any window or hole is that your stand off distance is to be back far enough so as to not reveal any muzzle blast.
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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    all well and good but how does this help us rid world of moose and squirrel?
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    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I believe most snipers using the technique are using existing holes in the walls. Therefore the diameter and shape of the hole will vary significantly. They have to have a hole large enough so they can see with whatever optic they are using. Also the larger the hole the larger their field of view and field of fire is going to be.

    If they were using a hole, say the size of a silver dollar, they would only be able to engage targets which are in a very narrow cone of fire.

    The main advantage to shooting through any window or hole is that your stand off distance is to be back far enough so as to not reveal any muzzle blast.
    In urban combat, it seems one can always find a sledgehammer if one looks for it, many holes are enlarged or made to fit the mission.
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    You dont always need a hole. A door slightly opened adjacent to a window not only works well for concealment, but also helps to suppress the sound, making it difficult to pinpoint.

    Shooters have done "drive bys" by laying in the trunk of a car and using the hole where the key used to be. Using suppressed weapons makes it very difficult to locate,especially when the vehicle is constantly moving.

    As for vortexs affecting the path of the bullet, once the bullet leaves the muzzle what little vortex there is seen when shooting through an orifice has little effect manily because the bullet is way ahead of any deviation.

    If shooting through a suppressor, it could affect the flight, one of the reasons that most suppressors are balanced, to lessen this effect.
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    Try watching Modern Sniper on the Military Channel on for June 22nd @ 10 PM or June 23rd @ 1 AM (all EST) as I think they're repeating the episode that show the US Army training exercise in which they fully describe the technics.


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    "I have seen where military snipers are employing a technique I think they call it the loop hole or key hole technique.

    A sniper from a distance of about 3 yards fires through a very small opening such as a gap in a concrete block wall. This conceals the sniper and if the shot is successful it is nearly impossible to detect where the shot came from."

    Not a New technique however.



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