Best Value 5.56 Rifle

This is a discussion on Best Value 5.56 Rifle within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I personally don't like the 5.56, I like the ak a lot more (7.62 of course). Traditionally the 223/5.56 is a small varmit round as ...

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Thread: Best Value 5.56 Rifle

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array CUMMINS's Avatar
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    I personally don't like the 5.56, I like the ak a lot more (7.62 of course). Traditionally the 223/5.56 is a small varmit round as you all know. I prefer more of a bite. The 6.8spc from rock river is excellent for an ar style rifle. I can give good judgement because I own all of the above. Just personal opinion. Dps makes a great rifle if you are still wanting a 5.56

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Working a murder trial tonight, so take your time Jon. I'll be here awhile. Jury has been deliberating since 2 pm in this 10 day circus.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array wormy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Wormy, I don't give a damn bout hitting snuff cans at 100 yards....they don't shoot back. Besides that I chew it so I routinely " kill a can" with my hands. :D

    But yes, at 100 yards, with a scope mounted such as yours, it will do it with boring regularity.
    You should probaly consider quitting "killing" a can of snuff before it kills you. That Copenhagen rotted out my bottom lip. Had pre-cancer lesions removed. Anyway my Sportical is great for what I use it for. Mostly coyote hunting at night with a Kill light mounted on it. I have never shot a Mini, but I have a buddy who has a older one. He cant hit the broad side of a barn with it.
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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Working a murder trial tonight, so take your time Jon. I'll be here awhile. Jury has been deliberating since 2 pm in this 10 day circus.
    Just updated some more… Wow, be sure to tell us about the trial once it's over. My Dad was a DA for Los Angeles County for the first 12 years of my life before he went to private practice. When I'd visit in the summers for two months, I'd go to work with him every single day almost. It was very interesting but at 7 or 8 years old I got into some files I shouldn't have seen. It's amazing what people can do to each other whether for money, sex, anger, jealousy, etc. I'm sure it gets old sitting there, but good for you for doing your duty!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Jon, in your opinion then, do my Colts qualify as a good rifle? I have the patrol model and a Goverment model sans the burst selection.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Jon, in your opinion then, do my Colts qualify as a good rifle? I have the patrol model and a Goverment model sans the burst selection.
    LE models with the 1:7 twist barrels? Colt is at the top of the list for quality. The only reason we see more of the other brands like BCM and DD is the options available like mid length gas systems, DD rails and with BCM, a choice of rails from pretty much any manufacturer.
    SIGguy229 likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array Ring's Avatar
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    "My initial thought was a Ruger Mini-14 in 5.56/233 due to reliability and cost/value,"
    \


    holy god NO!////

    minis are a good deal at 300$... but they cost 650 to 700+.. i can get a bear bones AR for 600 or less, ar mags are reliable and cost as little at 6$ and pmags for 15$

    i can get parts and mags anyware for an AR,,, not so much for a mini...

    my 16" M4 AR will do 2 inch at 300y,,, try that with a mini..

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array Ring's Avatar
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    "My initial thought was a Ruger Mini-14 in 5.56/233 due to reliability and cost/value,"
    \


    holy god NO!////

    minis are a good deal at 300$... but they cost 650 to 700+.. i can get a bear bones AR for 600 or less, ar mags are reliable and cost as little at 6$ and pmags for 15$

    i can get parts and mags anyware for an AR,,, not so much for a mini...

    my 16" M4 AR will do 2 inch at 300y,,, try that with a mini..

    not to mention i can change it from 22lr up to 50BMG and any ware in between in under 30 seconds...

  10. #39
    RKM
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    I thoroughly enjoy my M&P15. It might not be top of the line, but it's certainly far from bottom of the barrel. I've shot Black Hills Mk262 5.56 and it never blew up. As a matter of fact, it was the best performing ammo I've ever shot from my AR, even with it's 1:9 barrel. I let it get dirty and stay dirty... after hundred of rounds without cleaning it works fine. My bro-in-law yells at me for letting it get that dirty. He cleaned it how he was trained and told me that it's not nearly as clean as it should be even after he was done. To me, it was the cleanest it's ever been. I didn't even want to touch it, it was so clean. I got over it... and it's very dirty now. I'm the least bit concerned of it being so dirty that it won't function. I love that rifle. I personally have no issues with it, never have, and it'd work great in a self defense role if it needed to.

    I think the M&P15's are a great rifle as a "best value". While it may not be 100% mil-spec, it will most likely serve a civilian shooter just fine, even if ran hard. M&P15's are available in 1:7 if that's a must. They are labeled as 5.56 barrels, and I've shoot a lot of 5.56 with out incident. Like I said, 5.56 performs better than .223 in my rifle. But I shoot mostly .223 because it's obviously cheaper and easier to get a hold of.

    It'd be like comparing my Evo vs. a BMW M3. Same kind of concept. Same performance, either would make a driver plenty happy, but the BMW IS a better car. It's a tad more expensive, too.

    I'm not sure how accurate this chart is, but I stumbled upon it awhile ago. I found it again, for this thread. Again, not sure of it's accuracy, so take it with a grain of salt.


    Clearly, Colt is the winner :)

    I heard that Stag produced M&P15's. According to this chart, if they do, they make S&W rifles better than their own. My guess would be because M&P15 are designed for LE. But I'm not an expert, by far.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I have the link to the new chart by Rob and the associated threads linked in the sticky at the top of the Defensive Rifle subforum. Every bit of info in the new chart was form filled by the manufacturers themselves. Certain ones decided not to participate in the new chart!

    Here's the thread that links to it - New M4 Chart by rob_s

    I'm working on finishing the post I started on the previous page. i'll get it done, which it pretty much is, tonight or in the am.

    RKM - That's a very early version. Bravo Co and Daniel Defense have the same checkmarks as Colt in the revision of that version and also in the new version.

    Here's the revised version of that chart by Rob Salyer from these links

    Old Chart - http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

    New Chart - http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?...57#post1019457

    Here's the link to the old chart itself with a TON of info and explanations on what each component of mil spec is.

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...=5&output=html

    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ring View Post
    "My initial thought was a Ruger Mini-14 in 5.56/233 due to reliability and cost/value,"
    \


    holy god NO!////

    minis are a good deal at 300$... but they cost 650 to 700+.. i can get a bear bones AR for 600 or less, ar mags are reliable and cost as little at 6$ and pmags for 15$

    i can get parts and mags anyware for an AR,,, not so much for a mini...

    my 16" M4 AR will do 2 inch at 300y,,, try that with a mini..

    not to mention i can change it from 22lr up to 50BMG and any ware in between in under 30 seconds...
    +1 to this! If you could pick a mini up for 3-4 maybe even 450-500 I would think they were a good value but there are equal quality entry level AR's available for the retail cost of the mini 14. The AR platform is leaps and bounds more versatile then the mini.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  13. #42
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    Thank you all!

    You all offered MUCH more information than I initially expected.

    I'm even more confused and torn ... and that is a good thing.

    @glockrocker - I first thought that the ARs were out of reasonable price range, but I'm seeing that they are actually a great viable option.

    @NC Bullseye - I will check out both companies. I believe great CS is worth paying for.

    @jwhite75 - I looked at BCM and that got me excited. Anything to distinguish them from Noveske Daniel Defense or LMT?

    @Backnblack - $800 for 5.56 AR with lifetime warranty sounds really good. I'm moving away from the 1 yr warranty people.

    @jonconsiglio - Thank you thank you thank you for taking the time to write all that up. Yes, my eyes glazed over but that just means I have more material to review and warranty will play a big role in my decision and wow. thanks for the excel charts!


    @10thmtn - your experience w/ the Mini and comments have been super helpful. I've never considered AK so I appreciate you brining that up. Also I've heard the same about the accuracy re: the Mini. The older ones had thinner barrels and were a lot less accurate than the current versions with thicker barrels. I've never thought about direct access to the chamber either ... it sounds helpful ... but I'm such a newb in this area I'm still trying to factor that in.

    @Aiko - I will take a look at that combo. Thanks!

    @atctimmy - You're absolutely right. My search wasn't limited to 5.56. That was just a reasonable starting point for me. I will take a serious look at the AK 5.45x39 platform. Thank you for bringing it to my attention and the CDNN pricing.

    @wormy - $530?! Wow. Honestly, before I posted this question, I had the idea that getting into ARs was going to be a $3k venture. Thanks for showing me it doesn't have to.

    @Kilowatt3 - I'm seeing the benefits of both platforms. The price gap diminishing was a great point.

    @sgb - I've heard great things about the M&P15, although their 1 year warranty worries me.

    @blkobra - Ruger Scout in .308, right? I've heard interesting things about it and that is not off the table, but I'm a bit worried it tries to be the jack of all trades and a master of none.

    @zacii - Thank you for bring up the Saiga .223. Interesting. I will look at it more. Also appreciate you pointing out the price gap between the Mini and AR are non-existent. That makes my choice harder ... but more fun.

    @TSiWRX - I agree with you. This information got me from 0 - 30 already.

    @Cummins - I will look at the AK platform in more detail. Thanks!

    @Ring - lol ... I'm a newb in this area.

    @RKM - thank you for posting that. REALLY helpful.

    @Rollo - versatility was not something I really thought about. Thanks for bringing that up.

    So thank you all for making what I initially thought would be a kinda tough decision to a SUPER tough, chart analyzing, endless-variable considering decision.

    This shall be fun.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Good, I'm glad you are taking it in. Now, get over to those links that accompany the chart in my post and read, read, read. Rob_s is the originator of the charts, it's been published in a few of the gun magazines and has a big impact on the community, positively and negatively in some sense with some people.. M4carbine.net (where the links go) is full of info. Use it and read the stickies. You'll find a lot of professionals on that sight and not nearly the amount of nonsense you'll find on a similar ar15 focused site. Be sure to become a member on m4carbine, you'll learn a lot more than you'd ever imagine.

    I'll finish editing my post on page 2 by this afternoon. Good luck and choose wisely!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #44
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    @jwhite75 - I looked at BCM and that got me excited. Anything to distinguish them from Noveske Daniel Defense or LMT?
    The answer to this question is price. The BCM guns are $500 to $1000 cheaper than a Noveske, DD or LMT. A top notch AR can be had from BCM for about $950.

    For the record I have a S&W M&P and a BCM. They are both very nice guns. IMO the S&W is very high on the value chart because of what I paid for it. ($600 from CDNN) On the other hand my BCM is a SUPER nice rifle and IMO worth every penny. It shoots like a DREAM! See this thread: Range Report: Bravo Company DM rifle.
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  16. #45
    RKM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    RKM - That's a very early version. Bravo Co and Daniel Defense have the same checkmarks as Colt in the revision of that version and also in the new version.

    Here's the link to the old chart itself with a TON of info and explanations on what each component of mil spec is.

    Still, my beloved M&P15 is still in the upper middle :D mid-range price, with decent parts. Though, the BCM rifle looks like the absolute best value on the chart based on cost/parts

    Honestly, I'm surprised at Armalite. Being the company the originally produced the AR-15 rifle, they're low on the list. Of course they're not making military rifles anymore.

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