Best Value 5.56 Rifle

This is a discussion on Best Value 5.56 Rifle within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Rollo The AR platform is leaps and bounds more versatile then the mini. If by "versatile" you mean the ability to switch ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    The AR platform is leaps and bounds more versatile then the mini.
    If by "versatile" you mean the ability to switch uppers and use different calibers, then you are correct.

    If you mean the ability to hang all sorts of gadgets on your rifle, then you are incorrect - you can (unfortunately) do that to your Mini 14 as well.

    As a side note - I wonder how many folks who run ARs actually maintain them in the field, as opposed to their bench back home. I'll tell you from personal experience with a platoon of soldiers that all the itty bitty pieces that compose an AR (especially the bolt/bolt carrier) are a pain in the posterior...especially when you are tired and you're trying to clean the thing in the dark. Maybe not an issue for the average civilian, but something to consider.

    ETA - Nice (but long) video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fk84KLiaa4
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  3. #47
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    I took some time to post some items from over at M4 forum for you. All of these quotes are pertaining to the M&P 15. Don't let the one year warranty thing bother you. S&W is a top notch company when it comes to customer service. IMO S&W ARs are a great value. The top quote is from an industry professional, the rest are from LEOs who are issued a M&P....Enjoy.


    They are not a Colt, LMT, or BCM, but neither are they DPMS, Oly, or BM.
    Over the last three years we have purchased 720 S&W 14.5" M&P-15 rifles. So far we have not had any issues with these rifles. I also know of several other large state agencies across the US that have purchased large quantities of M&P-15's and they are not having any problems with their rifles. There are also several large local agencies that have made large purchases of these rifles and they are not have any issues with the rifles.

    IMHO based on my experience with the number of M&P-15 rifles that I have handled, I would say that you made a good choice.
    Just finished teaching a 40-hour patrol rifle operator class for my department, using the S&W rifles, and we had nary a problem. Our only issue was the old junk magazines we give to the students for the course, so as not to dent up their duty mags, but it gives the students practice time on transitions and tap-rack drills.

    I've had my job-issued S&W rifle for about 2 1/2 years now, one their early models, and it shoots like a champ. Probably 3000 or so rounds through it and shoots fantastic; I honestly can't remember the last time I had a malfunction with it, if ever. Our rifles were bought completely stock, but our department has upgraded them over the years. Now we have fixed Troy rear sights, Troy drop-in 4 rail systems, and streamlight flashlights. We are looking into getting Aimpoints in the near future.

    The operators love the Smith rifles and they have been carried now for two years with no complaints. Students burn about 1100 rounds during their basic operator course, and qualify twice a year with about 260 rounds or so per in-service, so if there was any issues, we would have found them.

    I have no problems trusting my life and the lives of my fellow officers with these rifles! Two thumbs up!
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  4. #48
    Member Array WonderBra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    The answer to this question is price. The BCM guns are $500 to $1000 cheaper than a Noveske, DD or LMT. A top notch AR can be had from BCM for about $950.

    For the record I have a S&W M&P and a BCM. They are both very nice guns. IMO the S&W is very high on the value chart because of what I paid for it. ($600 from CDNN) On the other hand my BCM is a SUPER nice rifle and IMO worth every penny. It shoots like a DREAM! See this thread: Range Report: Bravo Company DM rifle.
    Thanks atctimmy for that quote and the M&P testimony. I looked with keen interest on the BCM site. Which model/combo is $950?

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    You buy the parts separately, then assemble the rifle.

    I'm going the BCM route, and I figure it's gonna cost me $1,100 minus the optic. Now, it could be done for a bit less, but I wanted it a certain way...
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  6. #50
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    A good place to look besides BCM is with Grant at GandRTactical.com. Go for a blemished lower and save $70 there. The blem'd lowers usually look perfect though there may be a tiny mark or slight scratch. Mine look like crap anyway after a week so I may get one myself eventually.
    SIGguy229 likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  7. #51
    Member Array texas_son's Avatar
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    Those who have ar's are very loyal and the mini's must be good to draw such ire.

    Anyway, I put a stabilizer on my 195 series and perfer the open sites.

    If I drop the rear site and maintain my cheek weld I can entertain multilple targets veryy quickly out quite a ways. Very effective just swiveling and laying the front post on the target.

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array bsnow's Avatar
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    My Spikes Tactical with 5 pmags, Samson flip up BUIS, 10" BAR Quad rail, and hard case was right at 1200.00 delivered. They also included the A2 carry handle, which I may or may not use. To me it was money well spent, I love this rifle.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. PSALM 144:1

    I CLING to my guns and my Bible.

  9. #53
    Member Array Hamour's Avatar
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    Well for the best value, you need to quit thinking about the poodle shooter! For 895 + shipping CMP will deliver a Springfield Armory Service Grade special to your door! This rifle will be manufactured in the mid 50's but in as new condition. Every time I get ready to buy a new CAR-15, I think about one of them new old stock rifles just waiting on me! I think one of the HRA SG specials will get my CAR-15 budget this year! The 1976 Colt will have to struggle on for a few more months

    Plus you can shoot a 30-06 instead of the 223.

    Take care

  10. #54
    Member Array yankeeman's Avatar
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    I bought a BCM within the last few months and have been nothing but thrilled with it. I think one of the best deals right now is the Colt 6920 Grant at G&R is offering. I believe he has it at $981 I guess it all depends on your definition of value. I would rather save a little longer and go top of the line personally.

  11. #55
    Member Array handlebar's Avatar
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    Put one together with a Palmetto State Armory upper and lower, or use Aero Precision as a lower. done for about $600 and you have a quality weapon.

  12. #56
    Member Array gixxerboy1k's Avatar
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    im in the process of getting all the parts coming in the next few months found a lower for 89 bucks and going to get the 2 stage trigger and lower parts group from rock river arms once my FFL becomes a dealer for them. i havent decided on the upper i want but you can go really cheap to real spendy i should have about 525 into mine with no optics but that is getting everything for cost so it saves some money there

  13. #57
    Member Array Porp's Avatar
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    Not sure if this has been posted yet, but it was THE most valuable information I found when shopping for my AR. Enjoy!
    So you want to buy an AR-15, huh?

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    First of all, value should encompass re-sale also. So, a no name but quality firearm may not be as good a value when sold.

    I have a Colt, I never regretted the purchase.

    I'd consider a Mini 14 also.

    It just depends what you want to use it for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Porp View Post
    THE most valuable information I found when shopping for my AR. Enjoy!
    So you want to buy an AR-15, huh?
    Indeed.
    I learned more there than anywhere else.
    I recommend that website so often, I did a double take to see if was my post.

    BTW, I didn't buy what he recommended, but I knew why and I'm happy.

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I don't understand these comments about hanging "gadgets" from your AR. No matter how amazing you are with irons, a red dot is faster as you don't have to line up two different sight, no matter who you are. Some sort of vert grip gives you more rearward pressure and better barricade support, no matter how minimal that may be. A flashlight is self explanatory... An IR laser and/or night vision? Much, and I mean leaps and bounds, better for identification in low light and hit probability.

    You can take the best iron sight shooter in the world and add these features and he WILL become better with the proper training. I dot care if you are an indoor paper shooter or a real-life face shooter, it will improve your ability to make hits on target.

    I posted this in another thread as well. I think, for the most part, it's guys getting by with a basic carbine that say it's not an improvement or it's for "mall ninjas". The guys that actually have used them and have the available funds, it makes them a more accurate, faster shooter and that's important to most guys I know. I think a good optic, a light and a sling are very important if you do anything other than indoor bench shooting once in a while. Things like IR and night vision aren't completely necessary for a recreational weekend shooter, but they will improve your ability as a shooter. I can't see any good reason not to buy equipment that makes you a better shooter as long as you already have the skills to improve on.

    Saying those things are for mall ninjas is like saying hiker boots are for morons, buffalo hide moccasins have worked for centuries.

    As for the officer.com link above - jwise is a pretty good guy. He has a few posts on m4c that are pretty good. I hink some of it could be improved on as 3 years in the AR world is similar to dog years, but he has a good grasp on the system as a whole.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Jon - I've worn the uniform in the military, and still do as a volunteer police officer. I see the needs of a civilian, concerned about self defense, as not always the same as those of someone in uniform. Are all those gadgets useful in the military? Yes indeed. Are they needed by a civilian? Probably not.

    It's one thing when the taxpayer is paying your way. But when you need to pay your own way, the question becomes - am I better off buying this gadget, or some training and range time? And besides, this thread was about "value."

    Then there is the issue of weight - a carbine is meant to be a small, handy, light weight long arm. When you start hanging all those gadgets on it, you start to defeat the purpose. If you are going to carry a 12 lb carbine - maybe you are better off with a full-on rifle caliber battle rifle instead.

    Ask anyone who does trap shooting - when it comes to swinging your gun around, weight is your enemy. You can start a lighter gun swinging a lot faster than a heavier one - and in close quarters, that's a consideration. That's one reason my Rem 870 only has 4 shells (not an extended mag tube) and no light (don't need it, there's enough ambient light inside my home) - I want it light and "swingable." Extra shells are on the butt, close to me, so they do not impede getting the gun swinging around like weight on the forward end would.

    Finally, there is the KISS principle. The more stuff, the more to go wrong. The more stuff, the more support items you need (batteries, spare parts, etc). That's OK when the big green machine is behind you - not so good when you are on your own. Heck, that's one reason I like tube mags for civilian use - no need for spare mags, and you cannot lose the one you have. Would I want a tube mag fed rifle for war? No - but I'm not at war. I'm talking civilian needs here.

    So, hope that helps you understand the perspective of those of us who prefer to run our long guns stripped to the bare essentials.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Remington 870; Marlin 336 .30-30
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