Self Defense Ammo for .223? - Page 3

Self Defense Ammo for .223?

This is a discussion on Self Defense Ammo for .223? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have in my possession, loaded in my AR 75gr TAP. But it's .223, I was interested in TAP T2 loaded in 5.56, and I ...

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 95
Like Tree3Likes

Thread: Self Defense Ammo for .223?

  1. #31
    RKM
    RKM is offline
    Distinguished Member Array RKM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,844
    I have in my possession, loaded in my AR 75gr TAP. But it's .223, I was interested in TAP T2 loaded in 5.56, and I found it in the link I posted earlier. I'm just not ready to spend $30 for 20 rounds. Not yet anyway. For now I have a bunch of XM193, which still holds it's own even with all the specialty rounds out there.


  2. #32
    Senior Member Array ront's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    635
    Thanks a lot for all of the feedback you have given me!! I really appreciate it. I did pick up a box of the Hornady TAP FPD 60gr to try out.

    Thanks again, Ron
    Shine on...
    S&W M&P 9c
    S&W 9 Shield
    Taurus Raging Bull .454 Casull
    S&W M&P15 Sport;
    Mossberg 590A1

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array Ring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    545
    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    That's not TAP though. The 5.56 TAP is legal to own but not supposed to be distributed to anyone but LE or military, kind of like Ranger T Series ammunition and HST.

    The 5.56 TAP is in the link from RKM.

    TAP (tactical application police) and 223 FPD (for personal defense) are loaded different and use a different bullet. Really great stuff and at the top of the fragmenting food chain. It's about $30 to $35 per 20 round box.

    no... no its not... its the normal Vmax and 75 match in a shiny case... everything else is 100% the same except the 556 is loaded a tad hotter

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Ring View Post
    no... no its not... its the normal Vmax and 75 match in a shiny case... everything else is 100% the same except the 556 is loaded a tad hotter
    Do you have something to back this claim?

    A hyperlink reference would be nice.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array ront's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    635
    What is the difference between the Hornady V-max and the Hornady TAP? The bullet looks very much the same.

    Thanks, Ron
    Shine on...
    S&W M&P 9c
    S&W 9 Shield
    Taurus Raging Bull .454 Casull
    S&W M&P15 Sport;
    Mossberg 590A1

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Quote Originally Posted by Ring View Post
    no... no its not... its the normal Vmax and 75 match in a shiny case... everything else is 100% the same except the 556 is loaded a tad hotter
    A few years ago they were the same bullet I believe, but don't quote me on that one. They have since updated with the T2 bullet for the 5.56 TAP loadings and continues to use the standard bullet in the .223 loadings. It has a slightly better BC and yaws and fragments sooner and if I remember correctly, more consistently. Small differences would be the open tip (I forget the proper name) is more consistent as well. I'll edit with a link comparing the two bullets side by side.

    Here's one link. There's another as well with more info that I'll post if I find it. Keep in mind the TAP has a cannelure (cannulere sp?) and the VMAX does not.

    Edit - for home defense, I'd be perfectly content with either loading... I'd be content with mk262 as well, though not my top choice. The main difference we'll see between the 223 and 5.56 TAP, regardless of the bullet differences, is performance at distance. The 223 is 200 fps slower and will pass the fragmentation threshold sooner than the 5.56. How much depends on barrel length, but it's listed in the link below if you're interested. Anything other than for the home it appears the TSX barrier blond loads may be the better choice...

    Though it's changed a couple times, the 223 75gr TAP has a nickel plated case and the 5.56 75gr TAP has a standard brass case. The 223 used to have the black (nickel boron?) coated case but no longer does.

    Hornady 5.56 TAP versus TAP FPD (Heavy OTM Thread) - AR15.COM

    Quote Originally Posted by ront View Post
    What is the difference between the Hornady V-max and the Hornady TAP? The bullet looks very much the same.

    Thanks, Ron
    The cannelure, which aids in fragmentation.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array ront's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    635
    Thanks for the link!

    Ron
    Shine on...
    S&W M&P 9c
    S&W 9 Shield
    Taurus Raging Bull .454 Casull
    S&W M&P15 Sport;
    Mossberg 590A1

  8. #38
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,212
    1 in 12 used to be standard for original Colt SP-1s. None of this quick twist stuff. I've always been happy with various 50-60 grain handloads in mine.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  9. #39
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    Quote Originally Posted by ront View Post
    I just recently purchased an M&P15 Sport for target shooting as well as SD around our home. I have the Moosberg Persuader for inside our home, but wanted something with more reach for around our home. We live out in the country. I am just wondering what your suggestions may be. The barrel is a 1 in 8" 5R Rifling.
    Thanks for any input.

    Ron
    I'll subscribe to 55gr FMJ as being my all purpose defensive round. Realize that I've seldom given thought to deploying a rifle or carbine inside the castle for self defense. Short barrel, long barrel, twist rate, long range, short range, I don't think anyone can go wrong with that choice. Buy the mil-spec 5.56 when you can. Brass case of course (you do want something reliable to feed through your AR especially if it's for defensive purposes). What you might spend in specialty ammo or the current marketing tactics might be better spent in learning how to use your AR in close quarters for defensive purposes, or paying the entry fee into a 3-gun match.
    Some things change.....technology, engineering, marketing, keeping up with the Jones', etc. Those things that remain constant should always be the focus. Being effective with our tools. Train.....be ready, be capable, well supplied and willing. Hit your target, aim to be effective. All these things can be combined into one simple goal.........survive. It's not really as complicated as it seems, and it's surely not what some would like you to believe to cause you to question yourself or your ultimate goals in order to make profit themselves. Whenever you question yourself, your methods, or your means, others see weakness and opportunity. Within...there lie my suggestions.
    bmcgilvray and azchevy like this.

  10. #40
    RKM
    RKM is offline
    Distinguished Member Array RKM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,844
    ^^^ I think 55gr FMJ is plenty effective in most cases. I like having TAP and Mk262, but I wouldn't feel under gunned using M193 (or XM193)... heck even plain .223 55gr FMJ I think will do the job.
    Though back when I was all about reading into defensive ammo in .223/5.56, I've read that a lot of .223 55gr FMJ does not reliably fragment due to two things.
    Some .223 bullets lack a cannelure. Also, it lacks the velocity needs for reliable fragmentation.
    So if using FMJ, I'd stick with 5.56 XM193. I use .223 55gr FMJ mostly to shoot targets because it's usually cheaper and way easier to get a hold of.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array Ring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    545
    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Do you have something to back this claim?

    A hyperlink reference would be nice.
    call them...

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Quote Originally Posted by Ring View Post
    call them...
    If you guys look a couple posts above, I provided a link showing that the 5.56 TAP is a different bullet, the T2. It's also stated on Hornady's website that they use different bullets between the two loadings of TAP.

    Both 223 and 5.56 are different than the VMAX if for no other reason than the cannelure which aids in fragmentation and helps with bullet setback.

    They are different. The newer T2 bullet fragments at a lower velocity and also the meplat (what I was looking for in my last post) is much more consistent round to round and is even all around unlike the 223 TAP. The 5.56 T2 also has slighted better ballistic coefficient so it shoots slightly flatter, obviously the near 200 extra feet per second aids in this as well.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    I'll subscribe to 55gr FMJ as being my all purpose defensive round. Realize that I've seldom given thought to deploying a rifle or carbine inside the castle for self defense. Short barrel, long barrel, twist rate, long range, short range, I don't think anyone can go wrong with that choice. Buy the mil-spec 5.56 when you can. Brass case of course (you do want something reliable to feed through your AR especially if it's for defensive purposes). What you might spend in specialty ammo or the current marketing tactics might be better spent in learning how to use your AR in close quarters for defensive purposes, or paying the entry fee into a 3-gun match.
    Some things change.....technology, engineering, marketing, keeping up with the Jones', etc. Those things that remain constant should always be the focus. Being effective with our tools. Train.....be ready, be capable, well supplied and willing. Hit your target, aim to be effective. All these things can be combined into one simple goal.........survive. It's not really as complicated as it seems, and it's surely not what some would like you to believe to cause you to question yourself or your ultimate goals in order to make profit themselves. Whenever you question yourself, your methods, or your means, others see weakness and opportunity. Within...there lie my suggestions.
    I thought you were referring to m193, I guess due to the post after yours...

    I wouldn't feel undergunned with 193 either, but I wouldn't choose it for work or home defense given the other options available. If you read any reports from Dr Martin Fackler, in one instance he talks about a soldier shot from 10' by accident with m193. It went in his leg, traveled parallel to the femoral, though quite a distance away, and exited cleanly. Boththe entrance and exit wounds were the same size. The soldier walked himself, without a limp, to see Fackler and was active again in a few days. He states 193 is one of the worst choices when you have a choice.

    Again, I'd still use it but if I have the option of something considerably more effective, why would I not use it? By the way, I train very often and train in shoot houses every few months, last year I attended my first NV/no light class in a shoot house.
    It was very eye-opening and also quite enjoyable. Maybe not that class, but I highly recommend everyone using any weapon for defense get to a low light/no light class and work on using your weapon light. It's amazing how many that think they know how to use their light are using it completely wrong....myself included at the time.

    For the record, xm193 is pretty accurate from my new 14.5" BCM. I'm getting 2" ten shot groups at 85 yards.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    If you guys look a couple posts above, I provided a link showing that the 5.56 TAP is a different bullet, the T2. It's also stated on Hornady's website that they use different bullets between the two loadings of TAP.

    Both 223 and 5.56 are different than the VMAX if for no other reason than the cannelure which aids in fragmentation and helps with bullet setback.

    They are different. The newer T2 bullet fragments at a lower velocity and also the meplat (what I was looking for in my last post) is much more consistent round to round and is even all around unlike the 223 TAP. The 5.56 T2 also has slighted better ballistic coefficient so it shoots slightly flatter, obviously the near 200 extra feet per second aids in this as well.
    Do you know what the difference is between the Hornady : Law Enforcement | Products | 5.56 NATO TAP® - 5.56 NATO 75 gr. BTHP T2 TAP® and Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: 5.56 NATO :: 5.56 NATO 75 gr BTHP Superformance® Match™ or if there is any at all?
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Ring View Post
    call them...
    jonconsiglio has been good enough to provide evidence substantiating his post. I have done enough research on the subject myself, coming to the same conclusions.

    It would be courteous to provide some backup to your claim. I've already done my leg work, have you done yours?
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

.223 home defense ammo

,

.223 self defense ammo

,

223 home defense ammo

,

223 self defense ammo

,
best .223 ammo for home defense
,
best .223 ammo for self defense
,
best .223 self defense ammo
,
best 223 ammo for home defense
,

best 223 ammo for self defense

,
best 223 self defense ammo
,
best self defense 223 ammo
,
self defense 223 ammo
Click on a term to search for related topics.