New to shotguns - considering the idea for HD - Page 3

New to shotguns - considering the idea for HD

This is a discussion on New to shotguns - considering the idea for HD within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by SIXTO If I wanted to have a slug option, I'd leave the slug out of the gun and on the side saddle. ...

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    If I wanted to have a slug option, I'd leave the slug out of the gun and on the side saddle. If you'd rather have the slug, that tells me you have a little more time for a administrative loading of the slug.
    True, I generally keep one slug in the side saddle, but think for most HD purposes, they have very few uses.
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Not too concerned about the slugs and wasn't referring to a particular situation, just in general. I like having one way of doing it, which is dumping the round and loading the slug into the chamber and avoiding the tube unless topping off.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post


    But I am sitting here with both an 870 and my 930, trying to figure out how you are dumping just one round for an 870 swap. Although, admittedly, popping a slug in is easier with a pump if your tube is full, since you skip the extra steps of locking the bolt back.
    Break open the chamber part way, push the round in the tube forward then break it open all the way and dump the round. Then, obviously throw the slug (or whatever other round) into the chamber and close it.

    For whatever reason, it doesn't work with the Mossberg.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Break open the chamber part way, push the round in the tube forward then break it open all the way and dump the round. Then, obviously throw the slug (or whatever other round) into the chamber and close it.

    For whatever reason, it doesn't work with the Mossberg.
    The reason it doesn't work with a 500 is the lifter assembly that lifts the round up doesn't push in the cartridge stops until it is all the way down, and at that point it is below the loading port, so it is impossible to have your thumb in there.

    The lifter assembly for the 930 SPX is much more similar to the 870, so you can eject a shell without having any come out of the tube, by using your thumb to push the last shell in the tube in a little bit. However, either I am having a massive brain fart, or there is no way to hold open the bolt with rounds in the tube. So you would pretty much need a third hand to load a slug in while holding the weapon in a firing position and the bolt back.

    As I said, pump actions make loading a slug straight in much easier.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

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  5. #35
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    The reason it doesn't work with a 500 is the lifter assembly that lifts the round up doesn't push in the cartridge stops until it is all the way down, and at that point it is below the loading port, so it is impossible to have your thumb in there.

    The lifter assembly for the 930 SPX is much more similar to the 870, so you can eject a shell without having any come out of the tube, by using your thumb to push the last shell in the tube in a little bit. However, either I am having a massive brain fart, or there is no way to hold open the bolt with rounds in the tube. So you would pretty much need a third hand to load a slug in while holding the weapon in a firing position and the bolt back.

    As I said, pump actions make loading a slug straight in much easier.
    All you have to do is break the chamber halfway (pump halfway to the rear or so), take your left hand and bump the the round in the tube forward enough for it to reset (best word I could think of) then open the chamber the rest of the way and and throw the slug in there.

    Would this ever really be necessary...especially under stress? doubtful. Especially for me as my long gun is most likely an AR... But it's still good to know I guess!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    All you have to do is break the chamber halfway (pump halfway to the rear or so), take your left hand and bump the the round in the tube forward enough for it to reset (best word I could think of) then open the chamber the rest of the way and and throw the slug in there.

    Would this ever really be necessary...especially under stress? doubtful. Especially for me as my long gun is most likely an AR... But it's still good to know I guess!
    I keep a 12 gauge bedside, however, my M-4gery is close by, and once I leave the bedroom, the M-4 is the weapon of choice, due to my confidence and intimate familiarity with the weapons system through my experiences and training.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    I keep a 12 gauge bedside, however, my M-4gery is close by, and once I leave the bedroom, the M-4 is the weapon of choice, due to my confidence and intimate familiarity with the weapons system through my experiences and training.
    I keep my 10.5" AR ready by the bed. After the murder 2 blocks up and my psychotic brother in law, who knows... I looked up the 930, I didn't realize it was semi auto. Saw a video on ghost loading an extra round with a full tube and loaded chamber. I wouldn't do it, but it was interesting.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #39
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    .12 guage Charles Daly and a Maverick also in .12 guage by the bed. The wife takes one and I take the other anytime there is a noise outside. A noise outside
    is rare out here where I live "West of the Suwanee". I love my shotguns.................

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I keep my 10.5" ready by the bed. After the murder 2 blocks up and my psychotic brother in law, who knows... I looked up the 930, I didn't realize it was semi auto. Saw a video on ghost loading an extra round with a full tube and loaded chamber. I wouldn't do it, but it was interesting.
    Yes, it is a semi, which I why I said a couple times a pump like an 870 makes it easier to pop in a slug.

    I don't see too much of an advantage to ghost loading. Personally I am quite comfortable with 7 rounds of 00 buck in a semi-auto format, and am fine leaving the weapon Condition 3 as it's "ready state". If I need more than that, I am swapping to the previously mentioned M-4gery. The one thing I'd really like to change is swap out the fiber optic on the front sight for a tritium bead, but thus far, I haven't found a way to do so yet. But, I have a dedicated surefire wml on it, so it isn't a huge issue, as I will be illuminating any target before I shoot in a HD scenario, and really at room distance, when the light is focused on the target, the rounds hit the target.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
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  11. #41
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    I will recommend something a bit on the more inexpensive side. Maverick 88 12ga Security. 18" barrel with 5+1 shot capacity and it runs about $210 new up here. My cousin has one and has run close to a thousand rounds through it without an issue.

    I have a Remington Express HD that holds 6+1 and a four round sidesaddle on it that I installed, but it run about $300 when I bought it and I thought it was $350 the last time I saw one at the shop. I like it and it runs well, but I don't use it much so if I did it again I'd go Maverick.
    "It is your evil that will be sought by us. With every breath we will hunt them down. Each day we will spill their blood, until it rains down from the skies. Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles that every man from every faith can embrace." -McManus twins Boondock Saints

  12. #42
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    Tons of great info. and advice in this thread - I just wanted to put in my two-cents, highlighting some of what others have already said:

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    A handgun is great for moving withing a home, since it leaves a hand free for other tasks (phone, doors, lights, etc). The shotgun is best once you are barricaded inside your safe room, covering the door. Since you are not moving, the barrel length is really a moot point - you do not need a "short barrel" to defend your safe room.
    This is me.

    The handgun is my primary for HD. The only reason I'll come out of our master bedroom (our safe room) is to retrieve my daughter. I'm not going to clear my house, no matter how well I know it (or how well I'll eventually be trained) - I don't care about my possessions, all I care about is the safety of my daughter and my wife. While covering the 20 ft. span to retrieve my daughter from her room and then heading back into the master, I know that I'm better off with a free spare hand than not.

    The shotgun is my barricade weapon. I'll get it when and if opportunity affords, as it will offer me the most devastating firepower possible for the worst possible scenario: that the aggressor(s) are trying, for whatever reason, to get to me and my family.


    ----


    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    If I wanted to have a slug option, I'd leave the slug out of the gun and on the side saddle. If you'd rather have the slug, that tells me you have a little more time for a administrative loading of the slug.
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    It's not so much abut what we use, but how we use it.... Though what we use can definitely play a big part.
    These, I think, are inter-related, and both wonderful pieces of advice.

    I've set up my shotgun in a way that I like it. I've taken classes with it, and from those experiences, figured out what I wanted to do with the gun, to make it best-suit my intended use.

    My shotgun is not a shorty: it's got an 18-inch barrel. I don't intend to go through my house with it, so there's really no need for a shorter barrel, and what's more, with the longer barrel, that means that I have that many more rounds in the tube below. I have a Surefire 618LM foregrip because I know that in using the long-gun, I won't have a spare hand for a flashlight. I have a Mesa 6-round sidesaddle on the 870 because I know that when push comes to shove, I'm likely not going to have time to "suit up," and this gives me an acceptable amount of extra ammo on-gun, ready-to-go as I grab it from the back of the closet, especially supplemented with the four rounds that are inside the SpeedFeed III shoulder-stock, which replaced the factory stock in that I prefer manipulations with the ergos of a pistol-grip/full-stock combo. Finally, I know from class/training that I needed an optic on top if I wanted to keep both eyes open - my strong cross-dominance means that it takes a lot of work for me to sight-in using the bead.

    15 of the 16 rounds that I have on/in-gun are Federal's FiteControl wadded 00-bucks. I know how this ammo patterns in my gun from way-in to way-out, and I trust it to feed and fire without hickups. I have one "less lethal" round on my sidesaddle. I figure that if things are calm enough that I'd have the presence-of-mind to combat-load the chamber after I've disengaged my lock device, I will throw in that round just so that when it got to trial, I could earnestly state under-oath that I only wanted the BG out of the house. But if things are hairy enough and I reflexively jack in the 00-buch in the tube, then so be it. I don't have a need for slugs, given the dense-suburban settings of my home and property, but that single less-lethal takes on that "alternative ammo" role.

    Without hours at the range and in classes, I would not have known that I had half of these needs/preferences.

    Is this the way I think everyone should set up their HD shotgun? Heck no! But it is what I needed/wanted on mine, as a "bunker gun." (Yes, I did say that I lived in a dense-suburban environment - and that's also a part of the reason why my shotgun is a "bunker gun" only. Defending that safe-room doorway, my back-drop is clear for quite some distance; that would not be the case if I'm using the shotgun to clear my home, as I have neighbors close to either side.)

    The shotgun is a tremendously versatile tool. Understand what it can do (and can't do) for you, and use it appropriately.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Array bklynboy's Avatar
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    Shock, I like this idea of keeping a snapcap in the chamber. I've trained myself to hit the slide release, but it is is another fine motor skill that could easily go out the window when the SHTF

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSiWRX View Post
    Tons of great info. and advice in this thread - I just wanted to put in my two-cents, highlighting some of what others have already said:



    This is me.

    The handgun is my primary for HD. The only reason I'll come out of our master bedroom (our safe room) is to retrieve my daughter. I'm not going to clear my house, no matter how well I know it (or how well I'll eventually be trained) - I don't care about my possessions, all I care about is the safety of my daughter and my wife. While covering the 20 ft. span to retrieve my daughter from her room and then heading back into the master, I know that I'm better off with a free spare hand than not.

    The shotgun is my barricade weapon. I'll get it when and if opportunity affords, as it will offer me the most devastating firepower possible for the worst possible scenario: that the aggressor(s) are trying, for whatever reason, to get to me and my family.
    In my situation, I do have to leave our room and clear the house... Since moving about a year ago, the new house is set up differently and my 2 year old son's bedroom is downstairs and the other bedrooms are all upstairs. It was my wife's idea and I still don't completely get it since we have two extra bedrooms, but whatever. It has to do with him waking up throughout the night (not really any more) and not waking me or our daughter. Our bedroom is down the hall from my daughter's. In our other house, both of their rooms were upstairs and in separate corners with a guest room closest to the top of the steps.

    So, should the alarm wake us, priority number one is the kids regardless of where the bedrooms are. Also, as much as I personally recommend staying in place with the family, I also don't want the children and my wife in the room with me should there be any chance someone tries to enter our bedroom. I'd rather take the fight to them and put myself between them and my family.

    Last year when 2 guys were trying to break n and I stumbled on it by accident, I almost shot one and got into a bit of a chase (don't go there, I know what I did was wrong!!) it took the police about 10 minutes to get there according to the time of my 911 call...and the first responding officer is a buddy of mine. Every time I've called them, maybe 3 times, it's always taken about 10 minutes and two were very serious calls.

    Anyway, not trying to get too far off topic, just 'conversatin'. From here it should apply. ;) That's one of the reasons I really prefer long guns for home defense, or any type of defense/offense for that matter. I would feel confident with a shotgun whether a pump or semi auto, as long as I had the training we all need to defend ourselves and our families adequately.

    What I think everyone that has any type of weapon for home defense should do is get to a quality training class, preferably one that offers a shoot house and also focuses on low light/no light training. no matter how good we think we are, things get exponentially harder in the dark. We need every advantage we can get when it comes to home defense. Working the corners, knowing the blind spots, which way the doors swing, number of steps, etc., all will give us an advantage.

    OP, if you decide to use the shotgun as your primary home defense weapon, make sure everyone else becomes proficient with it as well. Be sure to walk your house with it a number of times then on occasion so you get experience with keeping the weapon ready but only exposing as little as necessary. Go over it with the wife regularly, even if she gets tired of hearing it.

    Forgive me for focusing so much on the defensive aspect.. With that 92 year old being bludgeoned to death two blocks from me, I'm taking things even more seriously than normal and I hope everyone else does as well. It's not very likely we'll have to use a weapon defense, but if we do it'll be one of those very few things that we can NOT screw up and won't be getting an opportunity to make right later on.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #45
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    ^ I don't think you need to be forgiven, at all. Those are some very good points made.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    So, should the alarm wake us, priority number one is the kids regardless of where the bedrooms are. Also, as much as I personally recommend staying in place with the family, I also don't want the children and my wife in the room with me should there be any chance someone tries to enter our bedroom. I'd rather take the fight to them and put myself between them and my family.
    ^ That's a very, very good point, and it's got me thinking and re-evaluating. Thank you, sincerely, for bringing that up.

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