Sixto's patrol rifle update

This is a discussion on Sixto's patrol rifle update within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'd move it pretty far forward, like under that het slot closest to the front sight. I'd put it towards the middle if I used ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I'd move it pretty far forward, like under that het slot closest to the front sight. I'd put it towards the middle if I used it more like a hand stop.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I'd move it pretty far forward, like under that het slot closest to the front sight. I'd put it towards the middle if I used it more like a hand stop.
    Yeah, that is what I did, but only to the middle slot for now. I put it all the way back simply because I thought it would be easier to tuck the gun in tight that way; I found that not to be the case, and was more useful farther forward like you described.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Here's how I set mine up and one of the two ways I grip my rifle..

    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  5. #64
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    That is where I left it after tinkering a bit, but I'll probably move it a dozen more times until I'm satisfied.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #65
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Not a bad place. You can run it with your index finger pressed into that lip at the end of the MOE and your little finger and possibly your ring finger pulling back against the vert grip. Those vert grips work well with that type of grip.

    Kind of like the way I had this set up for a short time…

    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  7. #66
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    I tend to like my VFG slightly further back than what jon has shown above. Of course, that picture is slightly deceiving, because that is not a full length barrel (is that a 12.5"?). But mine is a traditional M-4 length, so that makes thing a little different. My VFG is one of the little Magpul rail covers back from the front end of the rail, and my WML is at the end of the rail. That is as far forward on the rail as I can have the VFG, and still use the light effectively.

    But even on a full sized M-16A4, I still only had the VFG about halfway up the rails.

    Of course, this is now depressing me, reminding me that I need to do a mid-length carbine or dissipator build.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    The one with the flat dark earth rail is a 10.5" with a 9.5" Daniel Defense RIS II. That rail is very similar (half inch longer) to what a mid length gas system and a fixed front sight block would have. I moved it 2 spaces back since that photo. On my 14.5", which has that same rail, just the 12.25" version of it, I run it a little farther forward.

    Having the vert grips where I do gives me a lot more control, especially when moving between multiple targets. It really helps with any over swing and aids in recoil control.

    Here's my 10.5" with the 9.5" rail again. I've since moved it back two rail spaces since this is primarily used indoors, in vehicles or just relatively close range.





    Here's my 14.5" with the 12.25" rail



    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #68
    RKM
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    I used to keep my VFG really tight to the magwell because I loved the short length of pull. But after playing around, I moved it pretty far out, almost under the front sight. I can keep the little muzzle slip the gun already had even more in control with the grip further out.

    http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4674/img0019ngk.jpg

    http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/884/img0020yo.jpg

    I love the Grippod. It's a bit "tall", but the integrated bi-pod really comes in handy. I really only bench rest to sight in new ammo.

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    If you notice on my pics, you'll see on my 10.5" I run my vert grip right behind the gas block and on the 14.5" I run it directly under the has block or where the fixed front sight block would be, roughly. That thicker area without the hole above my very grip n the bottom of the rail is to cover the gas block if it's a carbine gas system. Since my 14;5" is a mid length, the gas block is actually right in front of the part of the rail where it's made to cover the carbine gas block.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  11. #70
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    All I got to say is good grief Jon. I'm very much appreciative of your knowledge sharing, don't get me wrong... but are you a little obsessive compulsive with your AR collection?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    All I got to say is good grief Jon. I'm very much appreciative of your knowledge sharing, don't get me wrong... but are you a little obsessive compulsive with your AR collection?
    You would think he at least would of moved up to P-mags by now.

    But seriously, sometimes he makes me feel like an AR N00B. Not only do I now need to build a mid-length, its gonna need to be a SBR too.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
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  13. #72
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    Haha.. Not OCD, just need different ones for multiple occasions! In my defense, the 14.5" and 10.5" are now my main two rifles that see the most use now and will for a while. I'm adding a Centurion mk12 and either another 14.5" or 12.5" and will try not to buy any more for a while, just rebarrel now and then.

    I've been using PMAGs for a few years and still do. I only use the black ones for any serious use as the colored ones are slightly weaker, but use those for the range or when we're just running drills. I've been transitioning back to GI mags though. NHMTG and Okay with the Magpul followers. They're just lower profile in plate carriers, chest rigs, belt rigs, go bags, etc. I'll eventually add some ranger plates.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  14. #73
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    I like the Pmags, but generally run GI mags. I'm not sold on the pmags 100% yet. I guess its a familiarity issue more than anything. I've had good luck with the Brownells mags. I did just buy 10 twenty round Pmags. (black) Its interesting you say the black ones are stronger, I've never heard that before. I guess the chemical make up of the plastic is slightly different or something.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Sweet pictures, really cool!

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I like the Pmags, but generally run GI mags. I'm not sold on the pmags 100% yet. I guess its a familiarity issue more than anything. I've had good luck with the Brownells mags. I did just buy 10 twenty round Pmags. (black) Its interesting you say the black ones are stronger, I've never heard that before. I guess the chemical make up of the plastic is slightly different or something.
    Vickers had made a comment he only uses black ones when he does use Pmags. I looked into it then realized when I was stippling some XTM covers, KAC black and FDE rail covers and some AFG's that the FDE ones were softer after stippling and would fuzz a bit where the black ones were hard and had a sheen to them. I also noticed all of my Pmags that weren't black, the covers on loaded mags wouldn't stay on. Only the black ones stayed on. This says something about them. What exactly, I don't know.... but something!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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