Gods help me, I may cross over to the dark [AR] side. Newby questions - Page 4

Gods help me, I may cross over to the dark [AR] side. Newby questions

This is a discussion on Gods help me, I may cross over to the dark [AR] side. Newby questions within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Yes. Good info....

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    Yes. Good info.


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Let me do some more digging. Both the upper and lower builds were done through G&Rs BCM choices (drop down menus). I presumed that there was a price break buying the package than piecing them together.

    The H3 buffer was something that I picked up on over at the M4 forums that was an improvement over the stock buffer, and the Vltor extension tube I thought was what you recommend a few posts ago.

    On the upper handguards, wouldn't the full length rail be sturdier than the 2 piece for the free float?
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Let me do some more digging. Both the upper and lower builds were done through G&Rs BCM choices (drop down menus).

    On the upper handguards, wouldn't the full length rail be sturdier than the 2 piece for the free float?
    Not really unless it was monolithic like the Vltor VIS or LMT MRP. Put it this way... With all of the free float rails I've used up to 12" and a mounted flip up or fixed sight, I've never once had my zero even slightly shift and I've fallen on top of my rifle, fell down a flight of wooden stairs, dropped my rifle onto pavement, etc. it is extremely sturdy as long as its a rail from Daniel Defense, KAC, LaRue, Centurion... If we were looking at UTG or some other cheaper company, then we may need to worry about it.

    If you're talking strength in terms of its accuracy and effect on the barrel, it won't play any role since the rail is mounted to the upper receiver and in no way contact the barrel at any point. So, even a hard whack to the rail will not touch the barrel.

    The CASV is not a one piece design or any different than a regular rail, it's just an easy attachment method so if you were to buy it aftermarket, at the time, it was really the only free float rail option that could be installed without removing the gas block, muzzle device and barrel nut. Now that we have the Centurion and DD Omega, we have lower profile free float rails that anyone can install without touching the barrel or it's components. That's really the only advantage of the CASV, which is no longer an exclusive advantage.

    It's way of mounting it to attach to the top rail of the receiver and hang down. The rails I've mentioned all attach to a mount via the barrel nut and are extremely sturdy. The only rails that can have alter your zero when pressure is applied is the standard handguard or drop in hand guards like the Surefire, KAC RAS, MOE, etc. Not a big deal either, but resting the handguard when it's not a free float and putting pressure when shooting can open your groups a bit, as can attaching a sling and using it as support while shooting. This is a non issue on free float hand guards.

    Honestly, I surprised The CASV is still in production.

    EDIT - I see what you mean now. No, the two piece is extremely sturdy and aids in cleaning actually. The RIS II is me of the sturdiest rails available and it's a two piece. These are not a two piece rail though in the same terms as a drop in. The area that attaches to the mount is one solid piece in most cases. Centurion went through all kinds of insane testing and even they were surprised by how sturdy it is. Monty LeClaire, the owner of Centurion, is an active duty SEAL and according to Larry Vickers, he's also one of the most knowledgeable people out there n small arms and these types of systems. He's also a gret guy.

    If mentally you feel you need a one piece, though I prefer the two piece in a way, then go with the Daniel Defense Lite rail or the LaRue. The Lite uses the same BOLT-UP system as the Daniel Defense RIS II. Google those rails and their durability. You'd be amazed.

    Oh, here's a Daniel Zdefense torture test video with Larry Vickers. This is their least sturdy, though still awesome, railed handguard available, the Omega X. The RIS II and Lite would be even more sturdy. They also offer a tubular rail now, the MFR. it's a really nice rail. Watch this test the whole way through. Watch how much abuse it takes and stays intact. It's a free float with two less mounting bolts than the others they offer. Check out the Aimpoint T1's durability as well.

    https://danieldefense.com/Torturetest
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Well after some more wishy washy rethinks, and re-configs, plus adding in the items that I spaced (mags, optics, BUIS, etc.) I've completely blown my target budget. Currently at $2500, likely to hit $3k before it is all said and done.

    Gotta make some calls and send some emails. I'll update as this progresses.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Rifle build revision 2.0

    Lower combined from PSA, and BCM – I assemble, some satisfaction if it comes with instructions.
    $384
    PSA stripped lower
    MIAD grip and lower guts
    Vltor eMod A5 kit

    Upper combined Centurion and BCM
    Est. $1060
    Centurion upper w/C4 12”
    I will contact to see what price will be w/o bolt carrier and charging handle, and switching to a LP gas block. Looking at another upper, the MUR only adds $130 as the option.
    BCM gunfighter charging handle and auto BCG

    Fluff $800 +/-;
    Troy folding BUIS Front & Rear
    Aimpoint Pro
    Magpul forward grip (angled or straight, need to test drive to see what feels best)
    2 - 30rd Pmags
    2 - 20rd Pmags
    Sling (?) we'll figure $50 for either Troy or Vickers - based on Sixto's thread

    Ordering from
    Centurion
    BCM
    G&R
    Primary Arms

    $1400 for a complete rifle with a little DIY,
    $800 in fluff.
    I can drop in a 6x42 POSP w/400m rangefinder, weaver mount scope for $239
    Light and mount – I’ll figure something.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Looking good. Which lower parts kit are you looking at? Colt makes the best,nmmy opinion, but it's expensive. Best bet is to order it from G&R as he assembles the kit from separate quality components and it's me of the best values and quality out there for LPK's. It's an easy assembly, there's plenty of YouTube videos and I could walk you through it on the hone of needed.

    Everything looks like a good choice, though I still don't see a need for the MUR upper, but again, that's just a personal opinion. It's fit with the barrel, rail and lower is a hair more consistent and MAY have a benefit with a precision rig. My buddy has a 18" precision upper built on one and I can't tell any difference. It's also supposed to be a benefit when firing full auto, but I've never heard of a standard forged upper receiver wearing out.

    Keep us up to date!

    IF I were to get the MUR, I'd get it with the forward assist. Their new style is pretty slick and lower profile than the one before.

    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    I like where your going with this

    Keep us updated as you go along.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    The lower parts kit was from PSA Palmetto State Armory MIAD LPK so I have no idea who makes it.

    So basically I am getting a PSA lower only with whatever internals they throw in with that grip (presumably the same that they include in their complete lowers), and DIY.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    The lower parts kit was from PSA Palmetto State Armory MIAD LPK so I have no idea who makes it.

    So basically I am getting a PSA lower only with whatever internals they throw in with that grip, and DIY.
    Ok, I missed that. I thought by MIAD and lower guts for some reason you meant the MIAD kit with different plugs like the extra bolt, 3 bullet or 2 battery bases. Sorry about that!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I'm currently in the process of sending out inquiries to the various companies for pricing. G&R unfortunately is OUT OF STOCK on most of what I am looking for, rather annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Ok, I missed that. I thought by MIAD and lower guts for some reason you meant the MIAD kit with different plugs like the extra bolt, 3 bullet or 2 battery bases. Sorry about that!
    Lower parts kit seemed a little to sterile, so I called 'em what they are, guts.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    I'm currently in the process of sending out inquiries to the various companies for pricing. G&R unfortunately is OUT OF STOCK on most of what I am looking for, rather annoying.



    Lower parts kit seemed a little to sterile, so I called 'em what they are, guts.
    You're going to find that some of the BCM stuff is hard to find in stock. Neil should have it though. What's going to be the hardest to find is the barrel and upper receiver. I went with a Noveske upper receiver and a BCM 14.5" mid length barrel on my last upper since the BCM upper was out of stock everywhere.

    Sometimes you have to keep a second choice list like a Centurion 16" mid length or a Noveske 16" mid length barrel with the BCM as the third choice since Noveske and Centurion have similar processes for their barrels. The only thing I don't ever have a second choice for is the rail or if I'm ordering a very specific precision rifle. I am very specific about which rail I want. My second choice in rails is a very distant second. My second choice is just as good as the first, but I prefer the way my choice in rails feels for the different ways I grip it. Unfortunately my first choice in rails and the pieces needed to complete it like a sling mount and sight (sling mounts are built in to many rails now) makes it one of the most expensive.

    As for the lowers, BCM, Noveske, Daniel Defense and PSA are all good. Daniel Defense and Noveske are easy to find stripped as is the PSA, but BCM and KAC are only available complete. Colt is really hard to find as just a lower and typically you need a complete rifle to find a new one unless a dealer breaks them in half for an order of a set of uppers. G&R has done this a couple times.

    One thing that you can do is buy any part you need separately if the main places don't have them, then send them to Neil as long as you buy some stuff their and he'll assemble them for you. So, if he has the barrel and bolt carrier group, you can order the lower/LPK and upper receiver from somewhere else and send the upper receiver to him and have him assemble it for you. You can also get the rail from him or somewhere else of course. The lower obviously doesn't need to go anywhere and you can do it yourself. Just be sure to stake the end plate after you torque it correctly and are sure it's what you want.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Heard back from BCM, who only answered [kind of] one of my questions, "Pricing on your 16" RECCE carbines" to whit "We don't well completes to the public, see your FFL"

    Still waiting to hear back on a package deal on the options and fluff that they carry and is in my build list (10 items).
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Dang.

    That is a whole lot of money for a poodle shooter.

    But, you're going to save money in ammo, right?

    I'm only teasing you a bit, but in all seriousness, if I were to spend that much on a rifle, it would be on something like an M1A firing 7.62 x 51.

    Your dime, your choice. But I should never ever ever spend that much on a 5.56 rifle.

    If you want to shoot cheap, get a .22LR.

    JMHO, good luck whatever you decide to do.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
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  14. #59
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Heard back from BCM, who only answered [kind of] one of my questions, "Pricing on your 16" RECCE carbines" to whit "We don't well completes to the public, see your FFL"

    Still waiting to hear back on a package deal on the options and fluff that they carry and is in my build list (10 items).
    I've never really thought about it since I always know exactly what I want and order it accordingly. Not that i agree with it, but I can see why many people just buy a Bushmaster from their local gun shop. It can be frustrating when you're working on a rifle and many parts are hard to get. Even with multiple rifles I still get very impatient.

    It'll all work out. I'd just call Neil and tell him exactly what you want. Then also ask him what're has similar if anything is out of stock.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Yep, because often an M1A fills the same roll as a carbine.... I think once the Grandpa generation finally passes on, we'll see about nobody recommending an M1A..! ;)

    At my next carbine course I'm taking an M1A. No, better yet..... Next time I'm escorting a client though the border towns here in Texas or teaching an LE class, I'm going to bust out the M1A. That'll work well when teaching vehicle tactics!!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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