Lets talk colors for a while

Lets talk colors for a while

This is a discussion on Lets talk colors for a while within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Working on my first AR build, and everything that I am pondering ordering (furniture) is black. To me that would seem to be the one ...

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Lets talk colors for a while

    Working on my first AR build, and everything that I am pondering ordering (furniture) is black. To me that would seem to be the one color that you could effectively use anywhere if you thought about what you are doing. done it in the past, stick to the shadows, even in winter wonderland.

    For those of you that color your rifles, are you going with whatever the color fad is (currently desert tan/digital) or do you specifically color to your region? I.E. greenbelt have a green/olive mix, plains have the tan, far north (like AK) go with white.

    How does one come up with a color/camo scheme for urban? Cement gray and Asphalt black with some bright colors or chrome mixed in?

    Is there a paint or coating that is fairly easy to remove for changing seasons and environments?

    Better off to buy a Ghillie suit for your weapon?
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep


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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    I went with dark earth. I know it's popular, but I like it. It blends nice in the red rock and coral pink sand where I live.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    I don't really get in the whole painting the rifle deal. I generally keep all my stuff black.

    Odds are something else would give you away long before your rifle color. Something like the keys or change in your pocket clinging against each other. If the BG is in a position where he can clearly identify the color of your rifle, you are in a position to shoot him.

    Note: This does not apply to people doing recon type missions, or in a STA team, where compromising a position by initiation contact is a very last option. But, aside from the SEALs, Delta, Marsoc, STA, and all those ODA guys that applies to. For the rest of us, I think this falls squarely in the "tacti-cool" category and really isn't neccessary, at all.

    But, in playing with your game, for urban, I would leave it black, maybe with some gray. Black doesn't really occur in nature, but it occurs a whole lot in the man-made world. Otherwise, muted tans and browns tend to fit in kind of everywhere aside from the frosted plains in a blizzard.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Black is a good default.

    It works well in shadows, doesn't reflect light, and doesn't reveal scratches and dings as much.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    Just do whatever trips your trigger
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    This is a photo from an EAG class by Paul G the Marine in the article. Black is the absolutely worst color, day or night, regardless of area whether under normal vision or NODs and can easily be picked out compared to almost anything else.

    Does it matter to most? I highly doubt it as there are many, many things to give you away first. If I was with a group of guys and there were people firing at us from 700 meters away? Then I would want every possible target indicator taken out of the equation, a black rifle being a huge one. There's reports of a certain unit taking hits to their waist area as they were using lack holsters while all else was painted. They ordered a number of multicam holsters and apparently some frames for their glasses as well.

    Do LE need to worry about this? Not that I've seen. If anything, the main reason I can think of would be hunting. I use a mix of black and FDE. I have no particular reason. I like a painted rifle as well but again, it's not for any real reason. Regardless of what I'm doing with work, I'm usually wearing somewhat normal clothing.

    Paul's is the third rifle from the top.

    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    This is a photo from an EAG class by Paul G the Marine in the article. Black is the absolutely worst color, day or night, regardless of area whether under normal vision or NODs and can easily be picked out compared to almost anything else.

    Does it matter to most? I highly doubt it as there are many, many things to give you away first. If I was with a group of guys and there were people firing at us from 700 meters away? Then I would want every possible target indicator taken out of the equation, a black rifle being a huge one. There's reports of a certain unit taking hits to their waist area as they were using lack holsters while all else was painted. They ordered a number of multicam holsters and apparently some frames for their glasses as well.

    Do LE need to worry about this? Not that I've seen. If anything, the main reason I can think of would be hunting. I use a mix of black and FDE. I have no particular reason. I like a painted rifle as well but again, it's not for any real reason. Regardless of what I'm doing with work, I'm usually wearing somewhat normal clothing.

    Paul's is the third rifle from the top.

    At 700 meters, you don't really notice the color of the weapon being shot at you, your are busier looking for the dust coming up or hoping for a muzzle flash in the shadows or something like that. Consequently, if someone is in a position firing at you, and you are firing back, all that is really seen on either end is the muzzle end of the gun, which is far too small to really see at distance without really high-powered optics.

    Do you know which unit that was? I can actually think of a few reasons that could be the case. First and foremost, assuming they were wearing the normal uniform, then that would of been some of the only black on there, which makes it an aiming point. I know for a fact that Marine patterned desert camo with coyote colored gear works pretty darn well in mountain type enviroments. And there is no black in it, at all. In fact, aside from my rifle, and aforementioned SAW sling turned single point, there was no black in my normal patrol outfit (well-pmags, but they were in pouches, and often dusty). So if there is something in stark contrast to that, like if I had carried a M-9 in a black Serpa on the front of my plate carrier, that would of been a great aiming point.

    It's like if I stuck a 2 foot by 2 foot piece of paper up, and just said shoot at it, most people would probably try to hit the middle, and on subsequent shots, if their eyesight is good enough, that hole would be an aiming reference point. But, if I took that same piece of paper, and put a 1" black circle 6 inches from the top, and just said shoot the paper, I would wager most would use that dot as an aiming point. That may be overly simplistic, but I believe it makes sense. IDPA targets would be another good example I suppose, there is a reason the scoring areas are not visible from distance. So, it really could of been more of a third order effect, in that it wasn't just because of the color black, but just that it was different.

    As far as LE use, the majority of LE uniforms I have seen have a large amount of black or navy in them, which mitigates this.

    Another possible reason is that they were just engaging at distance, and the insurgents were just shooting center of mass, and not adjusting much for distance. Very few of the insurgents I ever ran into was a good shot. And I know that locals didn't always grasp the connection between gauging distance, adjusting their AK's sight, and then firing.

    But heck sticks, if it trips your trigger, go for it.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Not sure what if anything I will do, hence the easy removal type paints vs. resins.

    I'm partial to the winter camo types. Blacks, grays...

    My bug out is the mountains (along with the other 2 million people on the front range) so a pine green & bark scheme would be prudent 8 months out of the year, unless it's during that 4 months, then I should be thinking prairie golds.

    Then again, I might just do something outrageous and match the rifle to my right sleeve tattoo.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    buckeye.45, I'm talking about a unit that's was seeing frequent hits in the areas that were black and were the easiest targets, so the enemy was using that as an aiming point.

    I'll link you to the thread, but it's a closed forum but if you register it should be activated within a few days. Give me a minute.

    What I was referring to was the black Serpa, just like you mentioned, being a great aiming point. The thread was about a large order, and some finally available to the public, of Mulitcam covered holsters.

    This was direct from people involved too, not just people that heard from some dude they met at a bar one night.... ;)
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    buckeye.45, I'm talking about a unit that's was seeing frequent hits in the areas that were black and were the easiest targets, so the enemy was using that as an aiming point.

    I'll link you to the thread, but it's a closed forum but if you register it should be activated within a few days. Give me a minute.
    Yeah, thats basically what I was saying more succinctly. But it wasn't because of the color was black, black just happened to be the color. If I had taken one of the OD green SAW drum pouches I was issued once upon a time, and put it in place of my mag pouches, that would provide an aiming point just as clear as the black with my desert gear. So the color black as an aiming point is a third order result of that phenomenon. If the holster was any color that was in sharp contrast with their gear, it provides an aiming point. Similarly is someone is wearing a black man-dress, with a green chinese style AK chest rig, the green chest rig, not the black outfit becomes the aiming point. A SWAT guy in all black with a black weapon offers very few aiming points.

    Really our eyes just pick up anything that doesn't fit, and that is what it focuses/targets on. Perfect circles, shiny things, colors that don't belong, straight lines, and movement.

    The thing is, in an urban enviroment, it is a lot harder. Black isn't in nature, but it is there. Straight lines are everywhere there, as are shiny things, and many other colors that don't exist in nature.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Not sure what if anything I will do, hence the easy removal type paints vs. resins.

    I'm partial to the winter camo types. Blacks, grays...

    My bug out is the mountains (along with the other 2 million people on the front range) so a pine green & bark scheme would be prudent 8 months out of the year, unless it's during that 4 months, then I should be thinking prairie golds.

    Then again, I might just do something outrageous and match the rifle to my right sleeve tattoo.
    I'm feeling verbose this weekend, I don't mean to be de-railing all the AR threads. Really a muted brown, like a coyote type color would be the most utilitarian. And offer the best solution.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    I'm feeling verbose this weekend, I don't mean to be de-railing all the AR threads. Really a muted brown, like a coyote type color would be the most utilitarian. And offer the best solution.
    And also fit in almost every environment it could be exposed to better, in general, than almost any other somewhat solid combo. Then there's multicam which seems to take on the color of its environment.

    Some environments, like those found in Afg and Irq often apply themselves to the gear and regardless of what color gear you have it seems to take on a nice dusting of the local flavor.

    With me..... You'll never see me comin' sucka! that's why I choose a hot pink or similar variant.

    Also, and not that the current enemy overseas has access to night vision, but black stands out more than any other color. A painted rifle will all but disappear due to additives in the paint and also in the dyes of milspec colors.

    When we do a low light clas or are just out hunting, guys with black rifles seem like just a floating rifle when wearing quality gear. Google it, there some great stuff on black when it comes to visibility.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    I kind of figured, the reason MOST people go with colored furniture is because they like the look. I like the tan colored add-on's. But if I only had one AR, and I do, I'd stick with black. If I could afford to play with more AR's, I'd probably have a few that are colored, just for fun. I don't personally need an AR to be colored for any other reason that looks alone, so I keep mine black.

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    Good point. I'm a civilian. Most members here are civilians. I'd wager that most AW owners are civilians, and their rifle is likely to never see any action other than a range or maybe some varmit/small game hunting.

    I'd have to agree, it's more for looks.

    If I had enough real estate on my eventual build for it, I may just stencil in OSHA yellow, "Yeah, it's black, get over it".

    Meanwhile in my rifle bag, will be a ghillie cover or three.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    I like the one at the top. What color is that?

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