AR vs AK: Let's talk about accuracy - Page 3

AR vs AK: Let's talk about accuracy

This is a discussion on AR vs AK: Let's talk about accuracy within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I like my AR and having a class 3 my M4 especially (4 position selector). Am I missing something here? Safe, Semi, Burst/Full Auto. What ...

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Thread: AR vs AK: Let's talk about accuracy

  1. #31
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    I like my AR and having a class 3 my M4 especially (4 position selector).

    Am I missing something here? Safe, Semi, Burst/Full Auto. What is the fourth position? Really, Really, super fast full auto?

    I also have my SIG 556 which is the best of both worlds so to speak. AR mags, AK reliability. As others have said though it is not the rifle but the person behind it.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    I apolgize in advance for taking this slightly off topic. I am starting to save some money to buy an EBR and I am trying to decide if I would be happier with an AR, AK, or SKS. I know basically nothing about any of them.

    Here are a few facts about why/what I would use the rifle for;

    1. Just for fun to shoot every couple of months, a couple of hundred rounds at a time.
    2. Would like to have one in case the ban ever gets reinstated, so it would be grandfathered in (hopefully).
    3. would like to have it if the economy really takes a dump and things get ugly.

    My limited understanding is that most AR's are 223/5.56 caliber. I see that this is available at my local walmart. I read that the 5.6 nato will shoot 223, but not the other way around, or vice versa.
    Ammo availablilty and cost would be a consideration since I am not independently wealthy.

    I understand that the 7.62 caliber that AK, and I think SKS use is the same as the american .308, but I believe the length is different, at least for the AK. (I think there is an AK74 also, that uses a differnet length also.)
    I don't think the AK ammo would be as easy to come by except military mail order or gun shows. Is this correct?

    It appears that the cost of AK's runs about 2/3 the cost of an AR.

    It appears that some people consider the AR more accurate, but the AK is more reliable.

    What about an SKS, modified to accept removable magazines?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    I apolgize in advance for taking this slightly off topic. I am starting to save some money to buy an EBR and I am trying to decide if I would be happier with an AR, AK, or SKS. I know basically nothing about any of them.

    Here are a few facts about why/what I would use the rifle for;

    1. Just for fun to shoot every couple of months, a couple of hundred rounds at a time.
    2. Would like to have one in case the ban ever gets reinstated, so it would be grandfathered in (hopefully).
    3. would like to have it if the economy really takes a dump and things get ugly.

    My limited understanding is that most AR's are 223/5.56 caliber. I see that this is available at my local walmart. I read that the 5.6 nato will shoot 223, but not the other way around, or vice versa. Correct.
    Ammo availablilty and cost would be a consideration since I am not independently wealthy.

    I understand that the 7.62 caliber that AK, and I think SKS use is the same as the american .308, but I believe the length is different, at least for the AK. (I think there is an AK74 also, that uses a differnet length also.) The AK and SKS use 7.62 X 39 and the .308 win is 7.62 X 51. they are not compatible.
    I don't think the AK ammo would be as easy to come by except military mail order or gun shows. Is this correct? No it's easy to find and cheap.

    It appears that the cost of AK's runs about 2/3 the cost of an AR.

    It appears that some people consider the AR more accurate, but the AK is more reliable. This is speculation. Quality ARs are VERY reliable and quality AKs can be accurate.

    What about an SKS, modified to accept removable magazines? Don't even go this route. There is a reason that the Russians didn't go this route and that reason is reliability. SKS rifles run great as SKS rifles and AKs run as AKs.
    With all due respect, there are about 100 threads on this subject already posted here. All you need to do is search and read. Then all of your questions (and ones you don't even know yet) will be answered.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  4. #34
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    I have never been comfortable with anything about the 5.56/223 battle round adopted by the USA in my youth, and having drinking buddys that made and certified the first Colts AR contracts out the door in early 70's did nothing to change my mind....its just mental masturbation, talking about a 22 caliber bullet 50/60 grns in comparison to a 30cal 125 grn bullet....really everyone take a deep breath...AR v. AK, at the end of the day all your superfine, excellent, trusty, tactical as all get out, beloved AR rifle is....a .22 and that AK ? sheetmetal crap....... I have never been impressed, and own a Mini30, that pleases me greatly, thank you very much..

  5. #35
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    I think I've got all the bases covered.

    AK vs. AR. vs AK.....whatever.

    I have several of each just to be sure so that when it all comes apart, I'll have the best of both worlds.
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  6. #36
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    and that AK ? sheetmetal crap....... I have never been impressed, and own a Mini30, that pleases me greatly, thank you very much..

    Wow bold statement. I bet more than one owner of the several million AK's throughout the world would argue with you.

    That sheet metal piece of crap has been through more mud, sand, muck, rust and still drawn blood than any other weapons system in the world. I for one am greatly impressed but to each his own.

    HotGuns is right in the end as long as it goes bang who cares.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CR Williams View Post
    In general, ARs are more reliable than many that haven't examined the matter think, and AKs are more accurate than many that haven't examined the matter think. That's the one-sentence summary as I see it.
    Well said and completely accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I think I've got all the bases covered.

    AK vs. AR. vs AK.....whatever.

    I have several of each just to be sure so that when it all comes apart, I'll have the best of both worlds.
    Same here HotGuns. Same here.
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  8. #38
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    With all due respect, there are about 100 threads on this subject already posted here. All you need to do is search and read. Then all of your questions (and ones you don't even know yet) will be answered.
    I would assume that's true, yet searching for "AR vs AK", and "AR verses AK", and "Compare AR and AK", and since the search engine will not allow two letter search terms, all the listed searches return no matches. I often have difficulty with the search function, for instance I try seaching for all content, from a specific username (myself) if I am looking to see if there were any replies to a question I asked, and sometimes I get no items found, and sometimes I might get one or two, even though I know I posted more than than in the past month (term specified in search settings).

    I'm not trying to whine about the search engine, but there are times when it doesn't really cut it.

    Any suggestions on a search term that will return results relative to selecting AR or AK?

  9. #39
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    Someone did not compare a mini-30 to an AK

    As far as AR reliability, if you want to solve the lube/dirt.... maintenance time scenario, spend the 250 and buy a fail zero bcg and be done with it. I love my AK's but nothing beats a good AR.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post

    Any suggestions on a search term that will return results relative to selecting AR or AK?
    No need to use the search option. Just skim through the first couple pages of threads in the rifle section. Willing to bet you find it brought up a lot.

    If it doesn't work then can always start a fresh thread. Would certainly get more attention then buried in another thread. Its an old topic, but it seems people love to argue about why their rifle is better.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    I would assume that's true, yet searching for "AR vs AK", and "AR verses AK", and "Compare AR and AK", and since the search engine will not allow two letter search terms, all the listed searches return no matches. I often have difficulty with the search function, for instance I try seaching for all content, from a specific username (myself) if I am looking to see if there were any replies to a question I asked, and sometimes I get no items found, and sometimes I might get one or two, even though I know I posted more than than in the past month (term specified in search settings).

    I'm not trying to whine about the search engine, but there are times when it doesn't really cut it.

    Any suggestions on a search term that will return results relative to selecting AR or AK?
    First start with one platform and learn about it. I suggest the AR. Just search best AR or best AR15 and that will get you started. Then search AK. There is enough on both guns to keep you reading for weeks. If you want the Cliff notes version just search for jon consiglios posts dealing with ARs.
    Last edited by atctimmy; December 15th, 2011 at 06:49 PM. Reason: typo ninjas
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptSmith View Post
    I have never been impressed, and own a Mini30, that pleases me greatly, thank you very much..
    I had a Ruger Mini 30 for a couple years a while back, and while a solid rifle like all Ruger products, my SKS rifles would do everything the Mini 30 would do. I shot them side by side many times and found the SKS to be just as reliability and even a bit more accurate IMO. The Mini is a decent rifle but really not great in any area. So I sold the Mini 30.

    Personally, I really don't understand this attitude some have that it has to be either the AR or the AK and one just has to be the better rifle system. I think this attitude is primarily based on the weapon these individuals own and they just are looking for and want justification for their choice of rifle. I own several of each platform and both have their pluses and minuses but I like both style rifles pretty much equally.

    jonconsiglio likes this.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirate View Post
    Personally, I really don't understand this attitude some have that it has to be either the AR or the AK and one just has to be the better rifle system. I think this attitude is primarily based on the weapon these individuals own and they just are looking for and want justification for their choice of rifle. I own several of each platform and both have their pluses and minuses but I like both style rifles pretty much equally.
    I agree. Both are great rifles and both will serve the shooter just fine, but they still have to do their part. If they're fighting with it, you still need to take care of them. I prefer the AR. It's what I know, what I work with and what I train on regularly. I'd be perfectly content running an AK once I get some more time training with them. Just like an AR, I'd need to throw an optic, a light and a sling on it and I'd be good to go.

    I'm surprised by the number of people I see commenting that ARs are unreliable. That's just not true. Just like the comments that AKs are inaccurate. Those comments are no different than saying 1911's can't hit the broad side of a barn or that hitting a guy in the arm with a 45 will spin him around and put him out of the fight. This is the danger with people with limited experience (of course there are a few exceptions) or passing on what they've heard. Then, some new guy looking for a reliable rifle comes along and reads that, they get turned off.

    What I've noticed with military guys that talk about the reliability of their rifles - it seems the more training they have, the more reliably their ARs become and the more they like them and the caliber. It's pretty interesting. If you head over to SOCNET or Lightfighter, the special forces guys (who train all the time and put an incredible amount of rounds through their weapons) talk about how reliable their M4's are and the caliber does a great job even at extreme distances and there's no need for a new caliber or different rifle. Then you listen to the occasional basic soldier who doesn't train anywhere near that amount say that the M4 needs updated because 5.56 isn't effective and the guns fail regularly.

    I see a connection here! Whether it's law enforcement, civilian, military or competition, it seems the more training, knowledge and experience you have and the more reliable your AR is and the more accurate your AK becomes.
    azchevy and CaptSmith like this.
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  14. #44
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    But......But.....You mean my 1911 .45 won't do those things? How could you say that?

    You are absolutely right in your posts, Pirate and Jon. You have to remember to the average soldier is issued an average rifle that may or may not have been issued to many, many other average soldiers so yes they may be prone to failure more than say an SF operators weapon.

    In regards to accuracy a person has to work with the AK sometimes to become accurate with it. The rear sight notch is to small for some, open it up a little bit and stroke on. I have heard soldiers complain the M4 is to heavy, well take 6 pounds of crap off of it and shoot with iron sights or a small red dot and be done with it.
    I would not have a problem going into anything with a stock M4 or AK. Properly maintained and operated they both do the job they were intended for.

    I have both platforms and train with both. Currently on this contract I carry an AK I can carry an M4 just choose not to. Like the old commercial "Sometimes you feel like a nut, Sometimes you don't" it all comes down to personal choice.
    jonconsiglio likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirate View Post
    I had a Ruger Mini 30 for a couple years a while back, and while a solid rifle like all Ruger products, my SKS rifles would do everything the Mini 30 would do. I shot them side by side many times and found the SKS to be just as reliability and even a bit more accurate IMO. The Mini is a decent rifle but really not great in any area. So I sold the Mini 30.

    Personally, I really don't understand this attitude some have that it has to be either the AR or the AK and one just has to be the better rifle system. I think this attitude is primarily based on the weapon these individuals own and they just are looking for and want justification for their choice of rifle. I own several of each platform and both have their pluses and minuses but I like both style rifles pretty much equally.

    Definitely agree. I have one of each. If I had to choose one, it'd be my AR. But the AK just has it's own charm. When I shoot my or another AK, it just feels awesome. Something about it. AR's are easier to operate and much more user friendly IMO. That's why I think for me it's number 1 over the AK. And while I believe the 5.56 is an excellent round, there is a good feeling of confidence and power when using a big SP 7.62 round. I think both rounds, even though we're not debating the ammo here, are about equally effective.

    That Ultimak and micro dot combo is just about the BEST optics set-up on an AK out there. I use the same on my AK.

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