This is a discussion on Sub2000 within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by gregarat
Very nicely put, hsuCowboy98!
That was my logic in geting one. I wa also conciering a S.H.T.F senario like in New ...
August 24th, 2006 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by gregarat
I don't own any pistol caliber carbines currently but a 9mm carbine in that price range and for that reason is more likely to get used, even as a deterrent by a civiy than a full blown assault rilfe/MBR bought to battle the Blue Helmeted Hoards of Barney the Anti-Christ.
August 24th, 2006 08:58 PM
Nice to know someone got some use out of one of those darn things. I had purchased a sub2000 NIB when they first came out. I got the G17 model. First range trip (and yes, I cleaned and checked it out beforehand), it gave me multiple FTEs in the first 10rd magazine. Subsequent range trips I swapped ammo types and manufactures trying to test for the optimal ammo. No go. This thing was about as usefull as a club. I tried everything from WWBs to Federal Hydrashocks to Gold Dot 124 +p's. It consistently gave multiple FTE's and FTF's giving me everything from a spent shell hanging half out the chamber to stovepipes. I called keltec and their response was to send me a little darn metal clip to attach to the ejection port. A lot of good that did. Same tests back at the range and had the same results. I did disassemble and checked the extractor etc... all appeared ok (ie no pieces broken burred or missing), all springs still had good tension and seemed to cycle manually. At that point I said the heck with it and sold it in as is condition and made sure the guy buying it knew its condition. He was willing to go through the trouble of getting the darn thing in working order. I wasn't. For that kind of "quality" out of the factory, I would have expected the price tag to be more in line with a water pistol.
August 27th, 2006 11:32 AM
Yup , first models were not very good . the current one's seem to be quite a step forward . Have not had any trouble with mine . The only thing I don't like is the hard plastic butt , left a good bruise first time out .
Originally Posted by packinnova
September 17th, 2006 11:10 AM
From a recent post of mine on GT, I thought it would be relevant here:
Many people believe a pistol carbine has "none of the advantages of a rifle and all the disadvantages of a pistol". I disagree. The simple fact that it is a carbine gives orders of magnitude improvements in practical accuracy over a pistol. I can hit 3" clays at 100M with my Sub2000 offhand. Try that with a pistol. I could get body hits at 150M I'm sure. Beyond that a rifle will certainly be superior in practical accuracy and obviously superior at any range in terminal effectiveness and cover penetration. A pistol carbine will not penetrate body armor or even mild cover, but will still kill or stop someone with decent hits.
One important thing my Sub2000 excells at that is rarely considered by many is concealability. I can have the quick pointing accuracy of a carbine with me in a package no one would expect and it be five seconds from being able to fire. I think there are many possible situations today that would make concealability extremely important, and except for the Sub2000 your only other choice is a pistol. Some pistols can be very accurate and powerful like the Kel-Tec PLR-16 .223 pistol, but you don't get a four point weld like a long gun and therefore you have to rest it on something to be very accurate. My Sub2000 pistol carbine offers a combination of firepower (high-cap mags), quick pointing accuracy, and concealability that makes it superior to anything else in many possible situations IMHO (think Katrina), and that is all driven by the fact that it is a long gun, it conceals and it is ready to fire in 5 seconds. The light weight of the carbine and ammo are a nice plus.
For a HD weapon I also think it excells. A pistol carbine would make it very easy for anyone to get quick multiple hits with less flash and report than anything else. If you have to clear the house do it with a pistol held close, but in a defensive position it's hard to beat IMHO.
All this and it is a hoot to shoot and it eats cheap 9mm ammo. What's not to like?
"To my mind, it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." - The Nuge
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