Sub2000

[ptmmatssc]

Well , picked up a Kel Tec SUB2000 and finally got to get down to the range with it . 50 yds I was getting 4" groups with the stock sights straight out of the box. I am pleasently surprised at how well it shoots and functions . I especially like that it folds down to 16" and can be locked in that position . It seems to be a great little gun and adequate as a home/personal defense weapon . I really like the fact that it takes glock 22 mags , so easy to have a few loaded and ready . This one I ordered is in .40 s&w and it seems to like decent JHPs . Any one else have or come across one of these ? Just would like to get an idea what others thought of it .

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[cmidkiff]

I've shot a couple of them, I was impressed with the simplistic design, and good performance. They're ugly, but reliable, accurate, inexpensive, very handy little carbines. I'll probably end up with one in 9mm eventually, just for cheap plinking.

The tube guard from blue force gear is a great accessory, if you havent' tried one.

[Doug]

I have a Glock 17 configured Sub 2000. I think it is a very nice little carbine. Over 500 rounds in it so far without a malfunction. It also fits nicely in a medium size Alice pack for when you're out and about.

[craig45]

i have a sub 9 mm beretta version. have the stock extension and cheek piece on it. great fun gun and very usable for critter control/defense if needed.

also downright deadly on home invading soda cans.

[QKShooter]

Not to be a party pooper but, I never saw much sense in buying a rifle chambered for any smaller pistol cartridge.
You quickly reach a point of diminishing return concerning added barrel length & increased velocity.
The rifle accepts the std. pistol magazine so no gain in cartridge capacity and it's still a semi~auto.
Now if you had 40 round mags available & it was select fire then I could see some advantage.

For sure...I'd rather mount a scope on an accurate 9mm handgun and have an even smaller package.

Now if ya bought a Tommy Gun .45acp in full auto and had one of those NICE Auto Ord. drum mags that are selling again for $500.00 a magazine...that would be a different story.

But, if you just want to own a Kel Tec Sub as a "fun gun" then I sure am not going to stop you from buying one.

I have nothing against having fun but, I'll personally pass on buying one.

[tanksoldier]

Well, they make 30 round Sig 226 magazines, which are impractical for the pistol... but in a carbine they'd be perfect.

And the carbine does increase your ability to hit out to 150yds or so, not a shot I'd want to take with a 226.

[ptmmatssc]

Not to be a party pooper but, I never saw much sense in buying a rifle chambered for any smaller pistol cartridge.
You quickly reach a point of diminishing return concerning added barrel length & increased velocity.
The rifle accepts the std. pistol magazine so no gain in cartridge capacity and it's still a semi~auto.
Now if you had 40 round mags available & it was select fire then I could see some advantage.

For sure...I'd rather mount a scope on an accurate 9mm handgun and have an even smaller package.

Now if ya bought a Tommy Gun .45acp in full auto and had one of those NICE Auto Ord. drum mags that are selling again for $500.00 a magazine...that would be a different story.

But, if you just want to own a Kel Tec Sub as a "fun gun" then I sure am not going to stop you from buying one.

I have nothing against having fun but, I'll personally pass on buying one.

I understand what you are saying , but I would not trust any pistol, really, out to 100 yds . That's where this little $300 carbine comes in handy . It is definitaly deadly out to that distance . Adding a scope to any of my pistols doesn't make sense for me since it would not make it a very good concealed piece so would be carting it around in a case etc. so if I'm going to have to do that , my preference is going to be something that can shoot the distance with accuracy and force . Not saying your view is wrong , just that I look at it differently .
As a side note , I'll have to do some testing down at the range to see what the actual power this little carbine has using pistol rounds . Judging from steel barrels that were shot at (going through both sides) at 100 yds , I'd say it would easily drop something of the 2 or 4 legged kind.

['75scout]

Hows the recoil on the 40? I've heard its a little brutal.

[ptmmatssc]

Lol , after shooting 2 boxes (50 a peice) I did have a bruise on my shoulder . Plan on adding a little padding there for the future . It's the one thing I didn't like , a hard plastic butt .

[QKShooter]

Let's just say that it has about as much oomph & is about as deadly as any 9mm or .45 acp pistol cartridge would be out at 100 yds.

The fact is that with any standard brass pistol cartridge in semi~auto configuration...the ammo can only ever be so hot because going much over any maximum load causes guaranteed failure to extract and/or case wall rupture on extraction.

So granted it's a bit easier to "hit" with a rifle (over a pistol) configured in 9mm but, it's still quite an anemic caliber at 100 yds.

And no...that does not mean that I want to get shot with one out at 100 yds.

For sure I'm not meaning to start any heated debate but, you just can't get away from the fact that the 9 was originally designed to be a short range pistol cartridge.

[hsuCowboy98]

For anything at 100 yards I want a real rifle, in a rifle caliber. Not to say that pistol cal. carbines arent fun, but at those ranges, Im not the type to rely on any pistol cartridge to stop anything other than a paper target. That being said, the sub2000 is a pretty fun carbine, and does pretty well on rabbits.

[ptmmatssc]

Agreed 9mm was initially set up as a handgun round . I chose the 40 s&w instead because , even though it to is a handgun round , it has more oomph to it . The fact that it is now being shot out of a 16" barrel means more velocity which means more penetration and possibly more energy upon impact . My particular model was tested using +p loads rated at 1300 fps and put out 1500 fps .

In all I will still use my .40 & .45 pistols as my main defenders , but for anything past 75-80 feet , I would prefer the small carbine . Anything past 100-150 yds I would use my .308 , but that would be sniping and not self defense . So for what it is and what it does I find it quite adequate .

Just my prefernce , not trying to "debate" since everyone has their own veiws . I just can't see myself packing any of my pistols and then carting around a .308 or 30-06 when I can bring along a little carbine that I actually set up in an old briefcase .

I will try to get out to the range this week and test what kind of damage this will do at 100yds using the ever popular water jugs and sheetrock . I'll let you know how it turns out and try to get some pics in there to . Who knows , maybe it will change my mind .

[hsuCowboy98]

Im not saying it doesnt have adequate power, but ballistically speaking, and trajectory wise, there is too much left to guessing about where the bullet will go, and what it will do when it gets there, thats all. I know form shooting several pistol cal. carbines, that the bullet drop is significant at 100 yards. Meanwhile, my 16'' M4 will shoot exactly (within inches) where I put the sights at 100-200 yards, eliminating the need to guess.

Then again, at anything more than 100 yards, were not speaking about self defense from anything less than someone else armed with a rifle, or pistol cal carbine I suppose. And for either of those scenarios I would take a rifle anyday over a carbine.. If theyre armed with anything less than a weapon capable of shooting effectively at 100 yards, youre speaking offensive tactics, and that is a field legally better left to LE and Military unless you wish to spend a significant time in court and possibly jail.

Not to be a party pooper but, I never saw much sense in buying a rifle chambered for any smaller pistol cartridge.
You quickly reach a point of diminishing return concerning added barrel length & increased velocity.
The rifle accepts the std. pistol magazine so no gain in cartridge capacity and it's still a semi~auto.
Now if you had 40 round mags available & it was select fire then I could see some advantage.

I agree 100% QK

[QKShooter]

Yea! Somebody agrees with me today. It must have been that second mug of coffee that I had this morning.

[gregarat]

Then again, at anything more than 100 yards, were not speaking about self defense from anything less than someone else armed with a rifle, or pistol cal carbine I suppose. And for either of those scenarios I would take a rifle anyday over a carbine.. If theyre armed with anything less than a weapon capable of shooting effectively at 100 yards, youre speaking offensive tactics, and that is a field legally better left to LE and Military unless you wish to spend a significant time in court and possibly jail.

Very nicely put, hsuCowboy98!
That was my logic in geting one. I wa also conciering a S.H.T.F senario like in New Orleans. I doubt that would hapen here, but...ya never know.

Pluse: Im fixin to rig a reflex sight on it. Talk about a fun time plinkin