Home defense setup - Page 2

Home defense setup

This is a discussion on Home defense setup within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Here's my recommendation:...

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  1. #16
    Member Array dooga's Avatar
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    Here's my recommendation:
    Gen 1 G17, Gen 3 G23, Gen 4 G26, 870P, MkIII 678, 10/22 Carbine


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    There's numerous fact based reasons why a rifle can be superior. Also, if the shotgun was the better choice, we'd see pretty much everyone that does entries switching over to shotguns. They serve a purpose and are a great choice. Side by side with a serious anoint of training and not just a how-to class, there are numerous reasons to choose a rifle.
    But we aren't talking tactical entries. We are talking home defense where muzzle flash, ammo capacity, the ability to hang 20 accessories on a quad-rail, single point sling attachments and 60 hours of tactical training classes aren't the "reality" here.

    With a trained user I would agree with you on the carbine.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    For HD consideration: 5.56 will penetrate less in gel after first going through a wall than shotgun pellets or handgun rounds. But, in the event of a complete miss, buckshot seems to penetrate less than 5.56 or pistol rounds. So, if you are worried about your neighbors in the event of a miss, buckshot is better.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 2

    From their "Lessons Learned:"

    Lessons learned:
    1. Notice that the #4 and #1 Buck penetrated 6 boards. In previous tests, 9mm, .45 ACP, and M-193 out of an AR all penetrated all 12 boards.

    So, it seems that these [shotgun] loads do not "over-penetrate" as much as some have led us to believe.

    The 00 Buck penetrated 8 boards, but was stopped by the 9th. Still not as much penetration as the pistol or rifle loads.

    The slug penetrated all 12 boards.
    .
    .
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    Frankly, I was surprised that the shotgun did not penetrate more than it did. I had been led to believe that they penetrated more than a .223 rifle or a 9mm or .45 ACP. Such was not the case.

    Amazing what you can learn by doing a little testing.

    .
    .
    .
    But doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a home?
    Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad guys. If our only concern was to be sure we didn't penetrate walls, we would use BB guns. However, BB guns will not stop bad guys.

    Therefore, we must use loads that will STOP bad guys, and this means that they will also penetrate walls. So, be sure you hit the bad guy and do not shoot into walls where loved ones are on the other side.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Arguing shotgun vs carbine for HD is moot, and off topic.

    For a home owner, the best course of action is hunkering down in a safe room in case of home invasion. A shotgun is best for this, period. It matters not if there is one home invader or a stack of 12 - only one can come through the door at a time, and after the first few shotgun blasts, the later ones will have to climb over the bodies of their buddies. That will give you time to reload your shotgun, or transition to pistol...so this talk about the higher capacity of the carbine for HD is a moot point.

    If the homeowner is forced to move and clear the home in order to get to family on the other end of the home (a very dangerous task that should only be done if there is no other choice), then a handgun is a better choice, as it leaves a hand free for other tasks...those loved ones might need to be herded into a safe direction (especially kids), light switches, phone, flashlight, etc. Plus, unless you are very well trained, it is far easier to protect a handgun from a gun grab (coming around a corner) than a long gun.

    Don't confuse offensive military and LE missions with civilian home defense.

    Now, once you start talking about area defense outside the home...THAT is where the carbine or rifle really shines.

    So...back on topic. OP - a basic, light shotgun that is easy to swing is all you need. I don't even run an extended mag tube, to keep the weight down. Nor do I run a flashlight - the shotgun will only come out once we are all in the safe room, so I don't need a light to ID a bad guy bashing down the door - he'll be pretty obvious. Just an elastic butt cuff for some spare shells (easy to remove for sporting use, and keeps the weight close to me so it's easier to swing). That's it.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by 10thmtn; December 29th, 2011 at 11:59 PM. Reason: clarity
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  4. #19
    Senior Member Array WD54241's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skysoldier29 View Post
    For my home defense needs I don't trust anything that doesn't shoot 12 GA 00 buck shot. It's just my wife, dogs and myself so I'm not going to have to move anywhere to secure kids or anything so I just lock ourselves in the bedroom and if they come in I'm going to start blasting. I have a 45 for my night stand gun, but I just don't trust it to stop a BG while I'm barricaded in a room. I do believe that a well placed shot to the center mass with buck shot will achieve the desired results.

    Take a look at this shotty. http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../New/52133.jpg

    The short barrel will help if you need to maneuver in the home if your situation requires it.
    Im sure that a single blast center mass with 00 buck shot will alter any intruders plans for the rest of the day!

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    But we aren't talking tactical entries. We are talking home defense where muzzle flash, ammo capacity, the ability to hang 20 accessories on a quad-rail, single point sling attachments and 60 hours of tactical training classes aren't the "reality" here.With a trained user I would agree with you on the carbine.
    I look at everything from the point of training and it's hard for me to look at it any other way when these topics come up. I keep an 8" 6.8 in the office and a 10.5" 5.56 in the bedroom as well as at work occasionally. If I step back and look at it in that context I guess I understand.

    I don't have the luxury of hunkering down. I have two kids on opposite ends of the house and separate floors right now. My first thing is to get to them.

    Last year I had a couple guys try to get into my home. Things went down outside when I happened to go out for a cigarette after waking up at 3am and happened on them. Only thing I had was my handgun. I posted a thread about it when it happened.

    For me and the guys I work, shoot or hang out with, the AR is always the first choice with a handgun second. Shotguns just aren't a big part of the training.

    Don't get me wrong, I've moved through a couple shoot houses with them just to try it when guys had one with them, but my results were never near that of an AR. Surely due to the time I spend on the AR, seeing as I handle one quite a bit daily and maybe handle a shotgun once a month.

    Again, the better choice is the one you train with regularly. I dot care who you are, if you have a weapon for home defense, training should be a part of the plan, at least in my opinion.
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; December 30th, 2011 at 12:34 AM. Reason: Forum is forcing paragraphs together
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    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  6. #21
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    I just don't want my one and only AR to be confiscated if I need to use it :( I don't plan on clearing my house, ever. If for some reason I need to, I'm taking my USP. If not, I have a trusty and cheap Mossberg. I like the idea of an AR for home defense, but I need more AR's. A few in SBR variety, but my career won't support my hopes and dreams.

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Home defense weapons need to be available, and operable, by more than just the "testosterone" infused members of the family.

    Not all wives and daughters are tactically trained killers . . . like us.

    Those that aren't Delta Force Operators need access to a weapon that they can pick up, point and shoot without much thought process involved. Black guns are intimidating and look complicated, even though they are not.

    Shotguns may also point easier, more naturally, than a carbine with a collapsible stock, cheek pad and a Eotech or other red dot optic. Some of those devices also have to be activated before they even work.

    Shotguns. . . . point barrel at bad guy and pull the trigger. If a hit is made then the shotgun will be more effective if the shot is less than nearly perfect COM or head shot.

    Pump shotguns are not dependent on gas redirection or a piston to toss the bolt back and load the next round.

    Pump shotguns have no long magazine hanging down that can be accidentally dropped out or dented and malfunction.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
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  8. #23
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Not sure about all of that... But I do know that my fashion designer/clothing store owner/working on her BSN then nurse anesthesis wife would be able to work a minigun when it came to defending our home and children. I can teach just about any idiot to use any firearm with a day at the range. Then again, like I said before, I had one round from a 32 buckle and destroy the fight in a guy that would be considered by just about anyone to be intimidating and was surely high and a 9mm turn a guy mid attack with a crowbar. I don't know, to each his own I guess. With minimal effort, prett much any current weapon can be used with good effect.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    K.I.S.S... Any 00 from a reputable manufacture is going to be just fine. That said, buy a box of five from a few different makes and test the pattern at a few different distances. Which ever one holds the best pattern, buy a few boxes of.

    Lights and rails... any quality light will do, the Surefire G2 is inexpensive and popular because it works well. Rails- not so sure. There are not many quality rail makers out there for a Maverick. I'd really really encourage you to go with a 590 or 870 express.
    This is the best suggestion. The price if you shop around will be minimal in difference.
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    Home defense weapons need to be available, and operable, by more than just the "testosterone" infused members of the family.

    Not all wives and daughters are tactically trained killers . . . like us.

    Those that aren't Delta Force Operators need access to a weapon that they can pick up, point and shoot without much thought process involved. Black guns are intimidating and look complicated, even though they are not.

    Shotguns may also point easier, more naturally, than a carbine with a collapsible stock, cheek pad and a Eotech or other red dot optic. Some of those devices also have to be activated before they even work.

    Shotguns. . . . point barrel at bad guy and pull the trigger. If a hit is made then the shotgun will be more effective if the shot is less than nearly perfect COM or head shot.

    Pump shotguns are not dependent on gas redirection or a piston to toss the bolt back and load the next round.

    Pump shotguns have no long magazine hanging down that can be accidentally dropped out or dented and malfunction.
    None of the females I've taken shooting have had an issue shooting my AR or any of the pistols I've ever owned. Most of them have better results than guys.

    It doesn't get much simpler than an AR. Pick up, deactivate ergonomic safety, place bright red do that's always on where you want bullet to go, pull trigger (experiencing a much softer recoil impulse than a shotgun), repeat as needed.

    Fact is, if you can get someone over the hump of ignorance about the difficulty of using an AR, it's easier to use than a shotgun. If someone has plenty of time on either/or, no need to fight that, but starting from square one an AR is easier to get rather proficient on quickly if one can get over the "but the news anchor said these are evil assault weapons!" phase.
    I collect ammo, not guns.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP9NewMexico View Post
    Hey guys,

    I've decided that my current safe-room setup, which consists of a solid-core bedroom door with deadbolt, heavy armchair to barricade door, 150 lumen flashlight, cell phone and charger, .40 S&W XD40 subcompact, Bodyguard 380 ACP, and aluminum baseball bat, could use a little extra muscle. I can shoot just fine with the .40 and .380, but my wife hates handguns. She won't touch them. I travel a fair bit, so that's a concern to me. However, she has expressed interest in learning to shoot a 12 gauge, since she used to shoot longguns with her father as child (he passed from cancer about 10 years ago).

    I'm pretty set on the Maverick 88. I know it's not a $1000 Benelli, but for plasting clay pigeons, jugs, and keeping handy for home invasions, I figure it can't be beat. That said, I'm looking for recommendations on ammo (0 or 00 buck, currently thinking of the Winchester Ranger stuff), a rail for mounting a weapons light, and a decent light. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

    Thanks!
    Just a reminder what the OP was asking and why he was asking for specific information. We are getting way off topic.

    I don't think he is looking for something to go on the offensive and hunt down bad guys in his home. Its for a last stand effort in the confines of a safe room. A shotgun is king in that situation IMO.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Not sure about all of that... But I do know that my fashion designer/clothing store owner/working on her BSN then nurse anesthesis wife would be able to work a minigun when it came to defending our home and children. I can teach just about any idiot to use any firearm with a day at the range. Then again, like I said before, I had one round from a 32 buckle and destroy the fight in a guy that would be considered by just about anyone to be intimidating and was surely high and a 9mm turn a guy mid attack with a crowbar. I don't know, to each his own I guess. With minimal effort, prett much any current weapon can be used with good effect.
    My choice would be my 12ga with 00 buck but only because I have a lot of experience with the shotgun. I have an AR but have only shot it at the range and hope to down the road take some classes and train with it further than just punching holes in paper. I've never made conversation with you on the forums but have read a lot of threads on the topic of ARs and have seen you referred to as our resident black rifle guru, so I would completely understand why you would prefer it. If I were and expert on both systems I would be inclined to chose the AR over the shotgun because of round count, mounting options and compactness. Your statement of using what you have trained with and are most proficient with is the end all be all answer in my book.

    For staying static and defending the entrance to a room I would undoubtedly suggest a 20ga with 00buck for your wife MP9NewMexico.
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

  13. #28
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    Sense the weapon is primarily for your wife, I'd let her pick which one she likes, then work the ammo around her choice.

    Don't forget to look at 20 ga and 410.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
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  14. #29
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    A shotgun will stop most anyone from coming through a door. 00 Buck!
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  15. #30
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    I was concerned over killing family with 00 buck with misses. So
    check for yourself ,,,,, I am using 3 & 4 buck

    00 buck = 33 cal X 9 pellets
    #1 Buck = 30 caliber 16 pellets
    #4 buck, 27 pellets
    check these out,,,, the guy makes the case to use #4 buck ,,,


    Shotgunworld.com • View topic - #4 vs #1 Buckshot

    testing with home grade sheet rock
    The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

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