Home defense setup

This is a discussion on Home defense setup within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I just keep mine loaded with the relatively cheap Remington green box 00 buck. It patterns pretty tightly out of my Mossberg 500 out to ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    I just keep mine loaded with the relatively cheap Remington green box 00 buck. It patterns pretty tightly out of my Mossberg 500 out to 25 or 30 yds-plenty of effective range for your stated purpose. Any 00 buck load is going to be perfectly fine for inside the bedroom distances, and the Maverick 88 is a good choice if you don't want to break the bank. However, if you have a harder time finding the kind of light mounts you want for it you may end up with a false economy on it; something I'd look into before purchase if I were you. On my shotgun there are no lights, just 5 in the tube and 5 more on one of those $4 elastic shell wraps on the stock. If something comes through the door, they don't belong in the house as I intend to have my wife and kids in the bedroom behind me by the time the shotgun comes out. If something goes down before then hopefully my P229 will be sufficient.

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array bklynboy's Avatar
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    +1 on the Federal LE loads with their Flitecontrol wads. I find these to be the tightest patterning in my Mossberg 500. They are available in regular and reduced recoil loads. Also their new #1 buck load is due out in January. If you go with a shotgun, I suggest you pattern their 00 and #1 loads and have your wife try them as well to see what she is comfortable with. For myself, I have close neighbors and ended up going with #4 buck. IT is a bit of a trade off however, the #4 buck does not pattern as tight as the Federal LE load, so I am planning to try some of the #1 FEderal LE when it is available for sale.

    BTW, I agree with Jonconsiglio, a rifle may be a better choice, though you can get a good shotgun for $200 and will need to 4 times as much for an AR. Since your wife doesn't like them, that is a moot point

  4. #33
    Member Array Lyndo's Avatar
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    The shotgun and rifle both have their place. I chose an AR-15 because of my being extremely familiar with the M-4 platform from multiple deployments and an engagement or two. I know how I shoot it, the safety is second nature. I know I will probably be firing multiple shots I chose the 45gr Glaser for the first ten rounds and 62gr DPX for the rest of the mag. It is set up almost identical to my issued M4 (White Light, EO Tech 552) and I feel 100% confident in my ability to stop the threat with my set up. I also have an 870 in the house with a light and loaded with the PDX-1 slug/ buck rounds. I think for the average person with minimal training the shotgun may be a superior choice, especially if the are not clearing.
    Glock 36, 30SF, 31, 32, 21 Gen4 - Carry guns
    Ruger Mini-14 and Remington 870 by the bed both wearing Surefire lights.
    Always carry a knife-they are handy to have
    Always carry a reload-You probably won't need it but it is good insurance .
    Always carry a light- To see in the dark

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Shotgun w/00 for defending yourself when barricaded with 9mm and up hand gun for back up. Benelli are great with less recoil but have a price tag. My real world experience is AR or MP for house clearing, hostage situations.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    If guys look back to my first post, you'll see it was just a question then I went on to suggest shotgun ammo. The only reason I continued with it was the M4 was called into question. I'm not sure why people have to run with the comments about kicking doors, clearing buildings and whatnot. An AR will work quite well in a barricaded position.

    We had a string of home invasions in my town where three or four men were kicking in doors wearing soft armor. I know this is not the norm, but I know if I was invading homes, I'd like some protection too, criminal or not. Seeing that we're preparing to defend our homes, we should consider all variables.

    So, at least for me, I anticipate more than one bad guy, I anticipate them wearing some sort of protection and I also anticipate them fighting instead of fleeing. If I'm concerned about this happening, which it has to me recently, I don't think it's a bad idea to expect more than just one guy entering the home.

    I'm not at all saying that an AR is the best for everyone, but quite often people make a choice based on whatever they're used too, then stop there without at least considering the pros and cons of both.

    I've worked with officers on their Glocks or M&Ps that wished they could carry their personally owned Rugers, or their S&W revolver, etc. It's what they were used too, but once they worked on their carry weapon a little more, they started to get it. Same goes with the guys here transitioning to ARs from shotguns. Many rejected the idea. Once we started talking statistics and then really got them driving the AR, many have adopted it, though some still have not.

    It's not about needing to change, it's about the need to understand why we're choosing what we are. If you choose a shotgun, that's great, it will be extremely effective whether you're staying put or clearing your home. Again, for clarity, I'm not trying to push the AR on anyone, I just want everyone out there that uses a weapon for defense to understand their options.

    Yes, the shotgun can put 9 to 12 pellets into a tight group with one pull of the trigger. From a low ready, I can put 7 or 8 rounds of 5.56 from a low ready into a paper plate 7 yards away in less than 2 seconds. I am not nearly as effective with a shotgun. Now, on the other end, I have a buddy that can rock a shotgun like nobody's business. I seriously doubt either one of us would truly trump the other with our weapon of choice. The point is, neither one is 5 times better than the other, they're very close, just different.

    I'd strongly suggest to everyone to take a good close quarters class involving a shoot house. Run it with both systems if you can and then make your decision. Until then, use what you're comfortable with, but keep an open mind. As for the OP, you will all see in my second post that I understood the reasoning and suggested choices in ammunition and let the AR thing go.

    For the record, I own a shotgun, numerous handguns (carry a Glock 17 now after years of 1911's) and recently sold a select fire MP5. I'm well trained on handguns and as well as ARs. I choose the AR over these (handgun as backup) because it works best for my needs, not because I think it trumps all other options definitively.



    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Any reason you don't choose an AR?

    A shotgun is surely a good choice when loaded for the job. I'd suggest Hornady TAP. There's a newer load that has a smaller slug or disk with 00 buck. Any of the "tactical" or "LE" loads are a good choice as well as any 00 buck.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Gotcha! Just wanted to make sure you considered all your options.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    You may also find this useful...

    Self-defense shotgun shell selection guide & FAQ

    A good post by Dr Roberts on the new Federal LE load as well - http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...n-loads-for-LE
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Ya don't have to convince me. I was just stating an opinion. People chose what they think they can live with. You included everything in your scenario except the BG's using grenades LOL.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Ya don't have to convince me. I was just stating an opinion. People chose what they think they can live with. You included everything in your scenario except the BG's using grenades LOL.
    It'll happen sooner or later! ;)Believe it or not, I try to be realistic when thinking about these things. I may stretch it a bit, but that kept me alive last time, so hopefully it will if there's a next time.

    Instead of preparing for the average, I take the very worst that has happened in my area or similar areas, and run with that. Since we had that armed crew knocking over houses wearing soft armor and tweaked out on meth, I figured there's at least a small chance that could happen again as they were hitting upper middle class and wealthy areas, one happened just short distance from my house.

    Then, a few months ago, exactly two blocks from me an 80+ year old vet that survived Pearl Harbor was bludgeoned to death during a home invasion, very similar to the incident I went through last year except that I survived it.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    For my HD shotgun purposes, I found a used Wingmaster for $200 and keep it stuffed with #1 buckshot.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  10. #39
    Member Array roadsiderob's Avatar
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    http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG462/shotgun

    I'd be more inclined to choose an 870, especially if you want a rail system. Magpul is getting ready to release a line of 870 accessories including a forend that will accept rail sections. The parts aren't available yet but you can preview them on their website. My favorite shotgun is a used Wingmaster with an 18.5" barrel with rifle sights.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    A buddy of mine rockin his Saiga... I forget why the optic was off, but he was running an x400 (visible laser) on the left side.

    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  12. #41
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Man, this thread sure got wayyyyyy off into left field didn't it?
    MP9NewMexico likes this.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    Man, this thread sure got wayyyyyy off into left field didn't it?
    yup.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    Man, this thread sure got wayyyyyy off into left field didn't it?
    Well, often times when comments are made that don't ring true with many with experience or comments are made as fact when they're just opinion, sometimes threads veer off course.

    Another way it could have been avoided very early is if everyone kept on topic after a very simple question was asked and answered. But, opinion took over and it went from there.

    I guess I could go back and delete all comments about ARs and why many with experience and training choose them over shotguns, but then I might be doing disservice to those with no experience on either that truly don't know or understand.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #44
    Member Array gunguy82's Avatar
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    My wife hates shotguns, but I bought two maverick security 88's, 20 inch barrel holds 8 rounds, $230 a piece out the door, got low recoil buckshot rounds and she seems ok with it. I have a mossberg 500 as well and the parts are interchangeable, can't beat em for the money
    And so when man and horse go down beneath a saber keen, or in a roaring charge of fierce melee you stop a bullet clean, and the hostiles come to get your scalp, just empty your canteen, put your pistol to your head and go to Fiddlers green. U.S Army Cavalry

  16. #45
    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
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    Well guys, thanks for the input! After all this, I have decided on the following:

    A friend sold me his DPMS Panther 16" for $700. Wife shot it, and said "Wow, this thing doesn't kick that bad...actually kinda fun!". To me, that's all the endorsement I need! I bought3 extra Magpul 30 round mags, which stay loaded in the biometric safe. As far as ammo goes, I have decided on the Federal XM ball stuff, alternating with Federal Powershok. That gives a good mix of penetration from the XM stuff, and expansion from the PowerShok stuff. Gun is secured to the wall of the walk-in closet with a wall-mounted rack (no kids, so don't need to worry about locking it right now). I've also installed a pressure-controlled 100 lumen light to the side-rail on the handgrip.

    As far as the saferoom goes, I have obtained a solid door wedge to place under the bedroom door, bought a new solid-core door from Home Depot with inside hinges, had a peephole installed, had a deadbolt installed. I also have a very thick oak dresser which is placed up against the edge of the doorjamb. This should help prevent wall shoot-through, and could be shoved in front of the door if needed. I also have a small nightstand that I have placed on a wall near the door. On top is a cell phone charger and a cell phone (dedicated ONLY to the safe room, never to be used elsewhere).

    Anything I'm missing?

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