AR vs. bolt 308

This is a discussion on AR vs. bolt 308 within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; newbie on this, so looking for help. If this thread exists, pls point it out, have looked at lots of AR threads. Also, have read ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 44
Like Tree11Likes

Thread: AR vs. bolt 308

  1. #1
    Member Array boatman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    171

    AR vs. bolt 308

    newbie on this, so looking for help.

    If this thread exists, pls point it out, have looked at lots of AR threads. Also, have read the whole AR thread, too much info to digest at once.....

    would like something very accurate at 300yds, maybe even 500.

    Was looking at AR (223) because wanting light wt and easy to clean, take apart etc.

    Have M&P AR22 for plinking, lots of fun, but limited on range.

    I don't know enough about bolt action vs. AR except that I have heard bolt is the most accurate.

    Can one effectively hunt with AR?

    Appreciate any advice. Thanks.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Guest Array Guest1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    home-astan(FINALLY)
    Posts
    1,125
    Please explain "very accurate",as in the triangle shot at 500 meters or an acceptable center mass at 500 meters,there is a BIG difference.

  4. #3
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,672
    The gap between bolt gun and semi-auto, specifically in the AR platform, has narrowed to the point of insignificance - assuming, of course, you get the RIGHT AR. To put it simply, you can get an AR that will be just as accurate for almost all aplications (certainly out to 500 yards) as a bolt gun.

    The good about an AR:

    1) modular design, easily adapted to many roles/shooters
    2) faster follow up shots, larger magazine capacity, more "firepower"
    3) less perceived recoil, as the movement of the bolt and action of the buffer will mitigate some of the recoil

    The bad about the AR:

    1) will generally be heavier than a bolt gun, though this is by no means an absolute
    2) will generally cost more than a bolt gun to achieve the same accuracy level, though this is again not an absolute
    3) relatively limited caliber availability, though this isn't an issue if you are going with .308/7.62N.
    4) at the very extreme ends of accuracy, the bolt gun still (probably) has the edge - though you would have to find the right conditions (and shooter!) to wring out this edge

    I'm sure more folks will be along shortly to give you specific examples of each action type - both "good values" and "best in class" stripes. Good luck with your search.
    Tzadik and atctimmy like this.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  5. #4
    Member Array boatman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    171
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    The gap between bolt gun and semi-auto, specifically in the AR platform, has narrowed to the point of insignificance - assuming, of course, you get the RIGHT AR. To put it simply, you can get an AR that will be just as accurate for almost all aplications (certainly out to 500 yards) as a bolt gun.

    I'm sure more folks will be along shortly to give you specific examples of each action type - both "good values" and "best in class" stripes. Good luck with your search.
    Appreciate your input. Assume I say spending from $600 (S&W) to $1k (colt) for AR. Don't know what Bolt 308 would cost for same accuracy, or what it would cost to get better.

    @glockrocker. problem is, I don't know. Was hoping someone would be able to tell me the diff, if any. IOW, AR at 500 yds would be a 6" spread, while the bolt would be 2", or whatever. Also, not just interested in spread, but assuming both zeroed in, how close to bullseye.

    Adding to equipment, but looking for pros/cons, differences, costs, etc. each way. Hoping to not have to get one of each, that one would be good all around. Say target and hunting, and of course , needed for 12/21/12 when the zombies come out ;-)

  6. #5
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,290
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    The gap between bolt gun and semi-auto, specifically in the AR platform, has narrowed to the point of insignificance - assuming, of course, you get the RIGHT AR. To put it simply, you can get an AR that will be just as accurate for almost all aplications (certainly out to 500 yards) as a bolt gun.

    The good about an AR:

    1) modular design, easily adapted to many roles/shooters
    2) faster follow up shots, larger magazine capacity, more "firepower"
    3) less perceived recoil, as the movement of the bolt and action of the buffer will mitigate some of the recoil

    The bad about the AR:

    1) will generally be heavier than a bolt gun, though this is by no means an absolute
    2) will generally cost more than a bolt gun to achieve the same accuracy level, though this is again not an absolute
    3) relatively limited caliber availability, though this isn't an issue if you are going with .308/7.62N.
    4) at the very extreme ends of accuracy, the bolt gun still (probably) has the edge - though you would have to find the right conditions (and shooter!) to wring out this edge

    I'm sure more folks will be along shortly to give you specific examples of each action type - both "good values" and "best in class" stripes. Good luck with your search.
    Sweet. You just articulated all of the reasons why I'm gravitating back to the AR platform.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  7. #6
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,672
    Forgive me if I am telling you what you already know here, but it sounds like you are relatively new to rifle shooting...

    Accuracy is generally measured in "minutes of angle," and it will vary from rifle to rifle (even the in the same "make and model", from ammo type to ammo type, and from bullet to bullet depending on a huge range of variables. For a very basic starting line in an "accurate" rifle, you want to be able to shoot groups no greater than 1 MOA. Roughly, a MOA translates into 1" at 100 yards (and thus would be 5" at 500 yards). Keeping that as our starting point...

    You will find ARs capable of much better accuracy, and bolt guns that cannot achieve these results - and vice versa. There is absolutely no blanket statement about "bolt guns" or "semi-autos" that can be applied accross the board. In truth, there is so much variation from manufacturer to manufacturer, model to model, and so on as to make blanket statement of any sort basically moot. Sorry, but you're going to have to do your homework... :)

    If the top end of your budget is $1000, you will be best served with a bolt gun. Remember also that the gun is only one part of the equation - you will also need optics and quality ammunition if you plan on really shooting for accuracy. You will never be able to get a system capable of less than 1/2 MOA (2" at 500 yards) for a grand - and honestly most shooters couldn't do that even if they had the mechanical capability to do so.

    Savage bolt guns are known as being good values for having decent accuracy at a reasonable price point. There are many other options out there as well. But if you intend this to be a true multi-purpose rifle, you may have to sacrifice some precision in order to keep it affordable.

    Again, good luck.
    Tzadik and Justified like this.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  8. #7
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    Sweet. You just articulated all of the reasons why I'm gravitating back to the AR platform.
    I'm admittedly biased, but I really don't think there is anything that can be asked of a rifle that can't be performed with some variation of the AR platform. Plinker, CQB, patrol rifle, sniper rifle, hunting rifle...you name it, the AR platform can do it, and do it very well.

    Ok, it might not be able to do what a .50 BMG or similar can do, but for all reasonable applications.... ;)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  9. #8
    VIP Member
    Array MrBuckwheat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Down Incognito
    Posts
    5,680
    If you are shooting up to 500 yards The ar or 308 bolt will work with the right set up. You will need to practice and make sure you have the right combination. It can be expensive to purchase rifles, scopes and barrels. 500 yards is not that far with some training and practice. Maybe you should look into an Appleseed. Look up the RWVA for one near you!

  10. #9
    Member Array swmft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    miami,Fl, usa
    Posts
    178
    Almost any hand built target grade gun can do what you want BUT few off the shelf will. look at bencrestcentral a single cold bore shot you can from a hunting rifle a group no the more it is shot the hotter the barrel the more flyers that is why target guns have a heavy barrel so five shot groups are possible sub moa

  11. #10
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by swmft View Post
    Almost any hand built target grade gun can do what you want BUT few off the shelf will. look at bencrestcentral a single cold bore shot you can from a hunting rifle a group no the more it is shot the hotter the barrel the more flyers that is why target guns have a heavy barrel so five shot groups are possible sub moa
    Again..... Wha?
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  12. #11
    Member Array boatman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    171
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Again..... Wha?
    again, thanks for you inputs.

    I got the above, you just have to add your own punctuation where you think it goes....
    jonconsiglio likes this.

  13. #12
    Member Array jasgo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    213
    Depends on your scenarios. If rural areas, a 7.62 in something like an accurized/match M1A for defense/hunting would work if you think you might also encounter BG at closer ranges. That would cover both long and short ranges for defense. For strictly hunting and range use, can't go wrong with an accurate bolt action and if you are going after something larger than varmints, you'll need the 7.62. A sporter/scout type of bolt action should be lighter than a decked out semiauto in 7.62 too. But if only for target shooting or very long range use (beyond 300yds), get a heavy barrelled bolt action with a good scope and bipod.

    If only for varmint hunting and/or defense within 300yds, then an accurate AR in 5.56.

    One thing though, 7.62 ammo is heavy and more expensive. You can carry a lot more 5.56 rds for the same weight. The give is that a 5.56 won't give you as good as a capability in terms of ballistics and wind bucking for longer ranges. A match 168gr 7.62 bullet will perform better downrange than a 62-70gr 5.56 for long range shots and have more retained energy. Also improve your first shot hit accuracy/probability at long ranges.

    By accurate, I mean anything that can do 1" groups or less at 100yds. Generally, a bolt action will have a nicer trigger pull.

    From this link: Military Caliber/Rifle For the 21st Century - Part 1

    Velocity in feet-per-second (Muzzle, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 yards)

    5.56mm NATO (63 grain): 3200, 2862, 2521, 2198, 1900, 1612

    7.62 NATO (168 grain): 2700, 2513, 2333, 2161, 1996, 1839


    Kinetic Energy in Ft-Pounds (Muzzle, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 yards)

    5.56mm NATO (63 grains @ 3200 FPS): 1432, 1146, 889, 676, 505, 364

    7.62 NATO (168 grains @ 2700 FPS): 2719, 2355, 2030, 1742, 1486, 1261


    Bullet Drop from line of bore (at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 yards)

    5.56mm NATO (63 grains @ 3200 FPS): -1.76, -7.79, -19.31, -38.06, -66.51

    7.62 NATO (168 grains @ 2700 FPS): -2.37, -10.23, -24.47, -46.14, -76.53


    Bullet Path in Inches at Zero Range of 300 yards (100, 200, 300, 400, 500)

    5.56mm NATO (63 grain @ 3200 FPS): +3.68, +4.58, 0.00, -11.81, -33.33

    7.62 NATO (168 grain @ 2700 FPS): +4.79, +5.58, 0.00, -13.02, -34.75
    Last edited by jasgo; February 9th, 2012 at 05:41 PM.

  14. #13
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,290
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Again..... Wha?
    OPFOR has a new friend.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  15. #14
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,672
    It's not the punctuation (though that is atrocious), it's the content. You do not need a hand-made rifle to achieve 1 MOA - or better - accuracy. There are many, many off the shelf rifles that are mechanically capable of this. If you want to get significantly BETTER than 1 MOA then, yes, you are looking at semi-custom work, but the fact is that the vast majority of shooters are not good enough to need/use that level of extreme mechanical accuracy.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  16. #15
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,402
    As much as I love the AR platform, if your budget is $1000, get a bolt action.

    Remington 700 SPS's in .308 can be found with some searching the the $500-600 dollar range, and that leaves you enough for a decent optic. If your main concerns are hunting and accuracy at range.

    I know for a fact that it is possible to reliably hit a man sized target at 500 yards with a M-16A4, thousands of recruits do it in the Marines every year. And every active duty Marine qualifies out to 500 yards every year, using a stock M-16. Granted, the 500 yard target is roughly man sized, so you don't need 1MOA groups, but still. I have qualified with iron sights out to 500 yards.

    That being said though, unless you plan on using this rifle for defensive purposes, I'd still go with a bolt gun in .308
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

308 ar or bolt
,

308 ar vs bolt action

,

308 bolt vs semi auto

,
308 semi auto or bolt action
,
308 semi auto vs bolt action
,
ar 15 or bolt action rifle
,
ar or bolt action
,
ar vs bolt
,
ar vs bolt action
,
ar vs bolt action accuracy
,
ar-15 vs bolt action accuracy
,
bolt action vs ar 15
Click on a term to search for related topics.