FN Scar16 vs. Masada ACR- Which one excels?

This is a discussion on FN Scar16 vs. Masada ACR- Which one excels? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I've been thinking about giving myself a little present and I've recently had a craving for a tactical rifle in 5.56mm. These two rifles have ...

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Thread: FN Scar16 vs. Masada ACR- Which one excels?

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    VIP Member Array los's Avatar
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    FN Scar16 vs. Masada ACR- Which one excels?

    I've been thinking about giving myself a little present and I've recently had a craving for a tactical rifle in 5.56mm. These two rifles have similiar characteristics but I don't know enough to make an educated decision.

    Anyone here with first hand knowledge on the good and the bad??

    Any advise or opinions would be appreciated.

    ACR.jpg

    FN SCAR 16.jpg
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

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    RKM
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    First off, I don't have any experience with either, but I'll share my opinion, which you may not give a crap about anyway.

    For 5.56, I'd just stick with the AR platform unless you just must have a piston gun, one of the features of either rifles is a must have, or you just have money to play with :) Otherwise, if you want a SCAR, I'd get the SCAR 17 in 7.62x51 over the 16 in 5.56, because like I said, I'd stick with the AR platform for 5.56, but maybe that's just me. I just don't feel like either of the rifle do a LOT more than an AR in 5.56, other than cost a lot more. But again, I don't have first hand experience shooting either the ACR or SCAR.

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    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    The comparisons I have read give the edge to the SCAR. Virtually no recoil, it uses standard AR mags (PMags do not work without modification). The SCAR's BUIS are better than the plastic Magpuls on the ACR. I actually have looked at both, I am ordering a SCAR 16S.
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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    The ACR has not turned into what Magpul ineeded. The SCAR is a better rifle. I have experience with both and own two SCARs.

    I'd also recommend sticking to the AR though.
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    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Member Array Footslogger's Avatar
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    I thought the Masada was a modular design, giving one the ability to change calibers and other components easily. Did this change when Bushmaster began producing it?
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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Footslogger View Post
    I thought the Masada was a modular design, giving one the ability to change calibers and other components easily. Did this change when Bushmaster began producing it?

    That's still the idea, though most of the needed equipment never came to market. Hopefully it will. Same with the SCAR to an extent, but they are now starting to release the shorter barrels and different calibers. I was talking about the rifle as a whole earlier. It's heavy and unfortunately the military and civilian versions differ. Only a 1:9 barrel for some reason as well.

    The ACR is not a terrible rifle, but it's not what it was supposed to be either. The SCAR is a great rifle that was slow to get components to market. It was adopted by SOCOM then abandoned in favor of the M4 and the SCAR Heavy. If anyone is interested, the very simple explanation is this; although the SCAR is a success, it didn't offer a significant advantage over the M4. The reason they stopped to order on the Light and essentially switched the 4:1 ration in favor of the Heavy is that SOCOM gets their M4's from the Army and it's not paid for out of SOCOM's budget. The SCAR rifles are paid for out of SOCOM's budget. So, they can use those funds to procure other items and continue using the M4 that is already supplied to them.

    So there's no confusion at all like we'll often see when this comes up on some other forums, the SCAR Light (16s) is a very successful rifle and all things being equal, is likely a slightly better rifle all around (not just reliability, but modularity, maintenance, etc.) than the M4. But, that difference is maybe only a couple percent overall and it's not worth a few thousand dollars for that small difference. Basically, here's a free Springfield 1911 or give me $3,500 for a Springfield Pro… My sorry attempt at an analogy.

    Personally, I like the SCAR. I prefer the Heavy for my needs, but that's just because I'm so invested in the M4. My time on the ACR though has not been nearly as positive. Being piston rifles, they'll have different recoil impulses than a DI AR. The SCAR has a quick, snappy recoil, but the muzzle stays flat, which is most important to me. The PWS brake plays a part in this as well, but I remove those in favor of flash hiders for 5.56 rifles anyway. The SCAR is extremely light and well balanced where the ACR is heavier and in my opinion not balanced as well as I'd prefer. The SCAR has a few weak points though, easily corrected. At SHOT they announced a new version of the SCAR. I believe it'll have a non-reciprocating charging handle and some other minor differences like including removal of the folding front sight gas block. Not sure if it'll be a civilian model yet or not. The stock is also considered a weak point, but that's all relative. Vltor has released a set up to use standard M4 stocks and Tango Down has an aluminum latch available as well as an angled CH and other accessories.

    The key is knowing how to set your rifle up to work best for you. The charging handle has never bothered me and the stock has worked well for me. Here's a good thread that's been going on a couple years on the SCAR L over on Lightfighter...

    Beginning to end covers about 2 years, so the most relative info will be on page 9 or possibly 8.
    Login To: Lightfighter Tactical Forum
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    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    VIP Member Array los's Avatar
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    THANKS, Guys. Great info.

    I've owned a few black rifles in the past. The most recent a S&W 15T. It was an awesome MOA shooter, specially with TAP ammo. Dumped a lot of money into it with multiple optics and accs. I had tons of fun with it ,..and then sold it. Got most of my cash back.

    I've seen video footage comparing the recoil of both subject rifles. It appears that the ACR has a more manageable (softer) recoil, but recoil will not be a factor in my decision. My decision will be based on reliability history, accuracy and options/features available with each model.

    Price is not a factor, either.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    If accuracy is a deciding factor… During testing SOCOM testing, guys were holding 1 MOA out to 800 meters. I can't do that myself, but apparently the rifle can with the right ammo. On many occasions I've shot 1.5 to 2 MOA ten shot groups at 200 and 300 meters, with the right optic.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    VIP Member Array los's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    If accuracy is a deciding factor… During testing SOCOM testing, guys were holding 1 MOA out to 800 meters. I can't do that myself, but apparently the rifle can with the right ammo. On many occasions I've shot 1.5 to 2 MOA ten shot groups at 200 and 300 meters, with the right optic.
    That's impressive for the 5.56, including your groupings. I'll probably keep the targets within 300 meters with mine.

    I've read many threads regarding excessive barrel heating issues associated with the Scar 16 because of it's thin barrel. Have you had this issue with yours?
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

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    Senior Member Array MilitaryArms's Avatar
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    I own two ACRs and two SCARs. I've been evaluating them for over a year now. I have a series of videos that might be of use to you.






    I started off favoring the SCAR. Over the course of the last year I've found myself gravitating towards the ACR.

    I have used one test rifle from each (1-SCAR and 1-ACR) where I've fired over 1,000 rounds through the rifle without cleaning or lube. Both have functioned 100% without any failures. While not an exhaustive test, it gives me a good idea how the rifles work when not cared for.

    I've found them to be about equal in the accuracy department.

    The issues I have with each.

    SCAR:
    The stock on the SCAR is cheaply made. The lock is easily broken and the stock itself is fairly unstable in that it moves and makes noise. While not critical (noise) to a civilian shooter, I've found it to be increasingly annoying. The stock simply feels cheap for such an expensive rifle.

    Over time the non-pinned lower (rear of the lower is a friction fit) starts to loosen so you get movement that's noticeable.

    The reciprocating charging handle is also troublesome for me. Even though I know it reciprocates, I inevitably get a thumb in the way during firing causing a malfunction. Rumor has it that a retro fit kit will be available in the future to convert existing rifles to be non-reciprocating. The most current version of the SCAR being tested by the US military for replacing the M4 has a folding non-reciprocating charging handle.

    Operators in the military have reported the SCAR destroying optics. The recoil impulse is such that the vibrations transmitted through the receiver have been playing havoc on EOTechs and magnified optics. I've not encountered this with my semi-auto rifles, this may be something unique to fully automatic rifles being used by the military.

    ACR:
    The barrel being removed and remounted shifts the point of impact in my testing (see videos above). It's never a major shift, but it has been noticeable.

    The selector lever on the ACR gets in the way of my trigger finger. This can be fixed by taking some of the material off of the polymer selector.

    The ACR is nose heavy and 1lbs heavier than the SCAR. All of this weight is in the barrel. I've weighed the rifles without their barrels and they are nearly identical, within a few ounces. A lighter weight barrel for the ACR would cure this negative point. I'm not too bothered by it though and found that the added weight lends itself to better off-hand shooting in my case.

    In the end I find myself favoring the ACR. I started off thinking the SCAR would be my favorite but time and lots of shooting has proven the opposite. I much prefer the stock of the ACR. I like the smaller profile of the ACR. I like the general feel of the ACR, the whole rifle feels more solid and robust to me. The super light recoil of the SCAR is attributed to the fantastic PWS brake. I put a 51T flash suppressor on one of the SCARs and it has a similar recoil impulse as the ACR. Putting a PWS brake on a ACR would give it a similar feel to a similarly equipped SCAR.
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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I believe that SCAR damaging optics had something to do with what was essentially a shockwave at the right time. Also, I believe this was mainly with EoTechs? I may be wrong as I'm going completely off of memory.

    As for the charging handle, I've never once had an issue, but that's likely due to hand placement and where I run my vert grip (I now use stubby Tango Downs on both).

    When shooting my SCAR next to the REPR, the SCAR has softer recoil with a flash hider, same compared to the MWS. Now, my SCAR L with a Surefire flash hider has slightly more linear recoil than my 14.5" BCM.

    I ran the charging handle on the right side for a while. Either side is fine for me, here's my typical hand placement on my SCAR H. I was concerned at first about interference, but found that wasn't the case for me and I shoot from all kinds of funky positions. Others, not so much I'm sure.

    For the lock, Tango Down has an aluminum latch available that is supposed to be much more secure. I've not tried it though. I have upwards of 6,500 rounds or so through my 16 and have had no issues to date. I have a couple buddies that really like their ACRs, I just think when it comes to utter reliability, there hasn't been a rifle tested to such an extent that has done as well as the SCAR. The ACR is a decent rifle, it just doesn't do much for me. The military version though may be a different story as I've not handled it.



    And my hand placement on my SCAR L

    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    VIP Member Array los's Avatar
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    This is great informaton. THANKS for the insight, Jon.

    Military Arms, your comparison videos are arguably the best on the web. They are quite instructional, as well.

    Observation/Question: With the ACR being somewhat Muzzle Heavy, placing optics towards the rear of the top rail would most likely create a better balanced rifle..? Correct.

    I would think the reverse would apply to the Scar-16, as it's a well balanced rifle, sans optics.

    Make sense..?
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by los View Post
    This is great informaton. THANKS for the insight, Jon.

    Military Arms, your comparison videos are arguably the best on the web. They are quite instructional, as well.

    Observation/Question: With the ACR being somewhat Muzzle Heavy, placing optics towards the rear of the top rail would most likely create a better balanced rifle..? Correct.

    I would think the reverse would apply to the Scar-16, as it's a well balanced rifle, sans optics.

    Make sense..?
    Not really, the optic is pretty centered for weight distribution and front heavy will stay front heavy, generally speaking. No matter how far back you go with the optic, it'll stay in front of your grip.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Something to consider...

    The highest prize winner on national television CBS, in the three gun world Tommy Thacker shoots a FNH SCAR.

    Certainly in the hands of guys of that caliber it probably doesn't matter if he's shooting a SCAR or brand x. However I bought my SCAR from Tommy debating the same (ACR vs. SCAR) problem you are inquiring about. I witness what that particular rifle does in capable hands and I say you can't go wrong with the SCAR. I'm not going to bad mouth the ACR because I think it's a great rifle. However ther is something to said for greatness.
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    Senior Member Array MilitaryArms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Something to consider...

    The highest prize winner on national television CBS, in the three gun world Tommy Thacker shoots a FNH SCAR.

    Certainly in the hands of guys of that caliber it probably doesn't matter if he's shooting a SCAR or brand x. However I bought my SCAR from Tommy debating the same (ACR vs. SCAR) problem you are inquiring about. I witness what that particular rifle does in capable hands and I say you can't go wrong with the SCAR. I'm not going to bad mouth the ACR because I think it's a great rifle. However ther is something to said for greatness.
    I don't put much stock in what one man can do with a particular tool. Jerry Miculek can spank my arse with a revolver while I'm using my G17 in a plate match, but that doesn't mean his gun is better than mine. It means the man is better with his tool than I am with mine, the tool has little to do with the end result. He could pick-up a G17 and likely spank me still.

    People tend to buy things when paid professionals do amazing things with their products. That's why companies dump so much money into sponsorships. People tend to think if so-and-so can win a national competition with brand X, then brand X naturally is superior to the competition.

    The best rifle on the market is the one that serves you well. What serves me well might not do it for you, there's no one size fits all when it comes to tools.

    I realize you said something similar, I just had to toss my $.02 in.
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