What Optics would you recommend?

This is a discussion on What Optics would you recommend? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Too much scope is like too many bullets. My recommendation was within his price range, and his minimum range. Why is that so troubling?...

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  1. #16
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    Too much scope is like too many bullets. My recommendation was within his price range, and his minimum range. Why is that so troubling?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Too much scope is like too many bullets. My recommendation was within his price range, and his minimum range. Why is that so troubling?
    For starters it's physically large. 13.5 inches is a long scope. It may affect the balance of his rifle.....a hunting rifle mind you, not a tactical rifle.

    Second it has target turrets that stick up and would be prone to getting banged on things like rocks and branches. Also when you carry a rifle all day those turrets dig into you back when the rifle is slung.

    Third is light transmission. As I said before magnification eats light. The more magnification you have the less light gets transmitted to your eye. The very best times to see game are first light and dusk. Higher magnification works against you, not for you at these crucial times.

    Lastly and the most important point of all is the fact that most game is shot at ranges of less than 100 yards. The OP it about 20 times more likely to get a fleeting view of a good bull in the pines at 75yds than he is to hit a 700 yard shot. Most hunting involves fast target acquisition and moving (or about to be moving) targets. As I said before I've had plenty of times when hunting that I wished for less magnification, but I've never wished for more. Never, not once.

    The ability to get a fast sight picture is WAY more important than being able to count points on a bull two valleys away.

    "Too much scope is like too many bullets."

    This, too, could not be further from the truth. In the field you've got to haul all these things up a mountain or two or three. Remember, on a hunting trip you're not going to be in any prolonged fire fight. Too much scope on your gun and too many bullets in your pack make for a long and tiring day on the mountain.
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    Mark Twain:
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  4. #18
    Senior Member Array jblives2ride's Avatar
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    i want to thank everyone for the views I'm leaning towards the vx3 if I can find a good used one or a Nikkon found a gentleman that has 4 3 x 9 prostff for 125... on craigslist for sale...
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblives2ride View Post
    i want to thank everyone for the views I'm leaning towards the vx3 if I can find a good used one or a Nikkon found a gentleman that has 4 3 x 9 prostff for 125... on craigslist for sale...
    There is a large gap in quality between a VX3 and a Prostaff. The VX3 is the flagship of Leupold's line. The Prostaff is Nikon's entry level scope. The price of $125 isn't extraordinary either. Many retail stores sell Prostaff scopes at around the same price point. The Prostaff isn't junk, not by a long shot. It's just not in the same league as the VX3 and Monarch series scopes.

    Nikon's flagship is the Monarch line of scopes and they are very good (as is the VX3). They are around $325 for a 3X9. Good hunting!
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    There is a large gap in quality between a VX3 and a Prostaff. The VX3 is the flagship of Leupold's line. The Prostaff is Nikon's entry level scope. The price of $125 isn't extraordinary either. Many retail stores sell Prostaff scopes at around the same price point. The Prostaff isn't junk, not by a long shot. It's just not in the same league as the VX3 and Monarch series scopes.

    Nikon's flagship is the Monarch line of scopes and they are very good (as is the VX3). They are around $325 for a 3X9. Good hunting!
    Points upon we both agree.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    For starters it's physically large. 13.5 inches is a long scope. It may affect the balance of his rifle.....a hunting rifle mind you, not a tactical rifle.

    Second it has target turrets that stick up and would be prone to getting banged on things like rocks and branches. Also when you carry a rifle all day those turrets dig into you back when the rifle is slung.

    Third is light transmission. As I said before magnification eats light. The more magnification you have the less light gets transmitted to your eye. The very best times to see game are first light and dusk. Higher magnification works against you, not for you at these crucial times.

    Lastly and the most important point of all is the fact that most game is shot at ranges of less than 100 yards. The OP it about 20 times more likely to get a fleeting view of a good bull in the pines at 75yds than he is to hit a 700 yard shot. Most hunting involves fast target acquisition and moving (or about to be moving) targets. As I said before I've had plenty of times when hunting that I wished for less magnification, but I've never wished for more. Never, not once.

    The ability to get a fast sight picture is WAY more important than being able to count points on a bull two valleys away.

    "Too much scope is like too many bullets."

    This, too, could not be further from the truth. In the field you've got to haul all these things up a mountain or two or three. Remember, on a hunting trip you're not going to be in any prolonged fire fight. Too much scope on your gun and too many bullets in your pack make for a long and tiring day on the mountain.
    I have never been a lighter-is-better kind of guy.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array Chuck R.'s Avatar
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    I would ask your friend what type of terrain you’ll be hunting in, and what type of hunting you’ll be doing, stalking Vs stand. I have 2 rifles set up primarily for elk:

    Steyr Mannlicher MOD S in 8x68S with a Swarovski 1.5-6X (open country)
    REM 7 Carbine Mannlicher Stock in .350 Rem Mag with a Swarovski 1.25-4X (Timber)

    I’m no expert, but I have killed a couple decent bulls on public ground, and both were less than 300 yards. IMHO I’d go as much quality as you can afford and a variable up to about 9-10X max. Other than Swarovskis, of which I own 4, I really like the Leupold Vari-X IIIs.

    IF I was stalking, there’s no way in hell I’d be doing it with a big high magnification scope, generally Elk hang out is some rugged terrain, and whatever you hang on that rifle you’ll spend more time humping than shooting. IF its mixed terrain and you do end up getting a shot in the timber, you’re not going to like trying to make a hasty shot with something in the 6X + range.

    Chuck
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I have never been a lighter-is-better kind of guy.
    Your posts tell me you've never hunted the mountains before.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  10. #24
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    I gotta agree with atctimmy. All the very longest shots I've made to take deer were accomplished with plain ol' 4X or 6X scopes. Not once have I used a scope of higher magnification on a truly long shot. Ive never been elk hunting but prudence dictates that I wouldn't be shooting at elk at any longer distance than the distance those whitetail taken.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array jblives2ride's Avatar
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    You're right I have never hunted in the mouintains this will be a first....Hunted Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakato, Texas...
    I would rather live my life as if there is a God,
    And die to find out there isn't, than live my life
    As if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
    God Bless

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Your posts tell me you've never hunted the mountains before.
    What's a mountain?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    What's a mountain?
    It's a big hill where the elk live.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblives2ride View Post
    I sold a remingtion 700 in .300 win mag for a new Kimber 8400 in .338 win mag to go elk hunting in Montana at a friends house. I have a Burris fullfield 2 3 x 9 x 40 on my winchester 70 30-06.....
    I am not an expert on glass, so just get what you like and can afford, but I must ask, why sell a .300 Win Mag for a .338 Win mag? Why not just use your 30-06? Many of us here in Montana use 30-06 for any large game. Any large game in the contential US will drop with a well placed 30-06 shot.
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.

  15. #29
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    For the price range your looking for, I'd opt for a Nikon, or save longer and get a Zeiss or a Trijicon.

  16. #30
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    What needs do a Nikon, Zeiss, or Trijicon address that a nice Leupold can't accomplish?
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

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