Survival Rifles

This is a discussion on Survival Rifles within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Quite frankly, I think your criteria is too limiting. The same ammo, 1 MOA and only 400 rounds is not really viable. My SHTF ideal ...

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Thread: Survival Rifles

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    Quite frankly, I think your criteria is too limiting. The same ammo, 1 MOA and only 400 rounds is not really viable. My SHTF ideal combo would be a 12 Gauge Shotgun (good to 100 yards) with a variety of loads and a bolt action in any common caliber (30-06, .308, 30-30, 5.56, etc.) with good glass on it, both preferably in stainless and synthetic materials.

    Of course, if I had to go with what I actually have on hand, it would be my accurized AR-15 with the 75 grain hollowpoints and either my 1911 or Browning Hi Power (the classic dilemma of caliber vs capacity).

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  3. #32
    Ex Member Array BigEd63's Avatar
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    If you need the same caliber and all pls if money is no object get a M-14 built as a dedicated lng range rifle and buy a M1A SOCOM model. So even the mags will swap

    Myself I'd dumpt the same ammo idea and have a good bolt action and an AR variant; most likely and M-4 type.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array gregarat's Avatar
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    I'm gona have to re-think the distance needs and decide if I really need a long range weapon. I still like the idea of having the capability to "reach out" if I needed.
    In that case... Forget the crap abput the rangefinder, Spoting scope, and stuff.

    My new vote is for the .308 Remington 700 , with a good, dependable, very durable scope. And a lever action, with Williams peep sights, and a luminated front post. If you realy want semi-auto, get a M14 platform.
    I still think a cleaning kit is a must. (Its like eating off of dishes, that were never washed. It might make ya sick.) The Otis kits are quite small, and light. You can swap their brushes with nylon, and put good cleaning solvents in the lil bugger.(Im Bias tuard Otis, cause the company is located near where I spent the early part of my life, Lyons Falls, NY )

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    OK, what about this combo - lets scrap the bolt action rifle, go with a scoped 18" M1A, in either collapsible or socom versions for precision work in the 300-500yds, and an Ak for close-in reliability in the 0-300yds?

    Now, for small game, the little USAF survival rifle to stuff in your rucksack, with a few 100 round boxes of .22ammo?

    Links:

    http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...light=survival

    http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...light=survival

  6. #35
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    Exclamation +1!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigEd63 View Post
    If you need the same caliber and all pls if money is no object get a M-14 built as a dedicated lng range rifle and buy a M1A SOCOM model. So even the mags will swap.
    That's exactly my plan. I'm halfway there. Got an M1A Supermatch and got it worked on by ROBAR. ROGARD on the exterior, NP3 in the interior and got some other work done. Bought a Shepherd Range Finding 3x10 scope and about 10 20rd mags. I had a buddy of mine, a SEAL sniper helped me zero and tune it....break it in.

    Next I'm going for the M1A SOCOM 16. The no frills model, except maybe a picatinney rail on the top for some kind of optic maybe a reflex or a holosight.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #36
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    Lightbulb Wht not the Kel-Tec Folding Carbine?

    Quote Originally Posted by cagueits View Post
    OK, what about this combo - lets scrap the bolt action rifle, go with a scoped 18" M1A, in either collapsible or socom versions for precision work in the 300-500yds, and an Ak for close-in reliability in the 0-300yds?

    Now, for small game, the little USAF survival rifle to stuff in your rucksack, with a few 100 round boxes of .22ammo?
    Why not a Kel-Tec sub-2000 folding carbine in 9mm?

    That would give you a nice layer of antipersonnel capability with again mag exchasnge with a handgun. You can get it in Glock. And after market Glock Ultra Hi-Cap 33rd mags are readily available. So you could have multi-layered defensive abilities and small game killing power as well out to about 130 meters.
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    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  8. #37
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    If its all come to a screaching halt and we are talking about survival...

    I will take my suppressed .300 Whisper 16" barrel AR with collapsible stock and night vision scope. The NIGHTwill be mine if needed.

    With this I can used subsonic ammo that sounds about like a pellet gun with 220 grain bullets, or I can take the NV off, use the standard sights and use supersonic ammo in the 125-150 grain range that is roughly equal to a 7.62 AK round but with a 30 round mag for situations that require a lot of shots fast. A quiet shot in the dark can be a great force mutiplier.

    The G-3 will cover everything else.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  9. #38
    Member Array paknheat's Avatar
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    My wife and i have a plan for SHTF. Provided we have enough time to implement it in full. We would not be staying in our house. We would fall back to the country where my folks place is. Between what we have and they have we would be self sefecient for quite a few months. They live in a unique area where there would be about 5 families of survival -type , Die hard Rednecks to buddy up with out there. I am a hobby gunsmith , so cleaning supplies would not come into play.All we would need would be about an hour to Bug-Out. As far as weapons and ammo go, I am prepared for up close, Way out far, And everything in between.As i am sure most of the members on the Forum are as well.
    A armed person is a citizen-An unarmed person is a future victim.

  10. #39
    Member Array jercamp45's Avatar
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    Already got my survival battery.....

    with different criteria.
    Tricked out AK is the rifle. Colt CCO .45 is the pistol. Looking for a medium sized .22 auto pistol to serve as small game/back up(wish I still had my Beretta M70!!). Would love to have a suppressor for the theoretical Beretta or .45.
    Ain't the perfect set up for sure. But it suits my needs well.
    No family here...if things get weird...think I'll head up to the Pacific Northwest to hide in them thar mountains and rain forests.

  11. #40
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    Question From Vegas to Washington State?

    Quote Originally Posted by jercamp45 View Post
    No family here...if things get weird...think I'll head up to the Pacific Northwest to hide in them thar mountains and rain forests.
    That's quite a jump in a SHTF situation. I was stationed at Fort Lewis from 1981-84. You ever been up in them THAR "hills?" You know something, I'll bet a lot of folks on this board have the same thought, so let's analyze this a bit.

    FIRST: TERRAIN

    Rugged doesn't do it justice. Ever look at a topigraphical map? All those squiggly little lines give the grade or steepness of the terrain. On a normal 1:50,000 map the distance between the lines is IIRC, 20 feet. THe closer the lines are together signifies the steepness of the grade. Using the standard topo map for post...we called it the "Fort Lewis Special" map...the distance between those lines was 100 METERS and usually squished so close together so as to resemble hashmarks on a ruler. Now add COLD and constantly WET. That area of the country measures annual rainfall at about 100 inches a year. So thirst isn't much of a problem if you know how to gather and store the water and have a way to purify creekwater. Trust me...there are NO wilderness water sources free of bacteria or pollutants that will harm you if taken internally over a long period of time. ALL water must be purified! BTW, What's the rainfall in Vegas?

    Next: A Rise in Population Density

    Now throw in another factor: In a SHTF situation every survivalist and Rambo wannbe in a five state radius will have the same exact idea...except that about 50% of those will know them THAR hills like the back of their hands and have their various arsenals along for the ride. Not to mention the folks who already have isolated hunting cabins or established "survival groups" in the area. There are dozens of those. The area may also be overrun with Canadian survivalists and hunters. The first thought on everybody's mind will be food. There will be two categories of folks now: HUNTERS and PREDATORS.

    HUNTING

    Forget seasons. This is survival. The game...ALL the game will be gone in a matter of weeks. Now what? To survive requires that you expend fewer calories than you consume in the gathering of food. With the four footed game gone that leaves three sources: Berries and veggies, birds and fish. You can't survive on berries. Need protein. That's why the granola crunchers from California will be toast at the outset. Most folks will try to shoot the birds. Bad idea. It wastes precious ammo and effort. You're burning calories all the while. Shooting birds is a sport not a survival tactic.

    The only technique that makes any sense for the long term is TRAPPING. It's quiet. It works 24/7 and you don't have to be present to win. It gathers game in such a fashion that the prey doesn't move elsewhere. You can trap birds, fish and people just as easily. So it's a way to gather food and keep security. Because you won't have access to claymore mines. Ragnar Benson has two excellent books on mantrapping out. You can buy them thru Paladin Press. I learned that several of his variations are taught in the military as well. Some are labor intensive, but if you rig them right, they'll work. But they are terrain specific. What works in Nevada will not also work in Washington State and vice versa.

    TWO LEGGED PREDATORS

    A SHTF scenario by definition is a lawless free fire zone. Actually: Those with the firepower make the laws. It won't take long for the granola crunching sheep to be knocked off. The rambo wannabes without a permanent shelter in place and sufficent numbers of guns and ammo and most importantly: KNOWLEDGE will be culled next and their goods assimilated (sounds like the BORG: RESISTANCE IS FUTILE). So it all boils down to numbers, assets and permanent shelter already being present and a well practiced plan in place. That sound like you?

    The folks who will last the course will be those "survivalists" who saw it coming and got ready probably years in advance. They'll recruit folks like the ex-military "specialists" who will have the training and skills. They will fall into a ideological niche (they'll have family along and have similar beliefs as the rest of the group) so as not to present a threat to the overall community.

    There will be post apocalyptic bands of predators roving the area looking to rape, kill and feed off the weak. Like the California granola crunchers. Unfortunately MANY of these guys will be military themselves and many will be in uniforms with the issued equipment. How'd you like to run across a patrol with your custom AK and find yourself facing two M-60's and a few SAWs as well as 12 M4's? Not a pretty picture, huh?

    Please, everybody envisioning this scenario.....please read this:

    Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. It's a novel of survival. Also read GREAT LIVIN' IN GRUBBY TIMES by Special Forces Sgt Paul. He has a few books out. Pathfinder Press published them but you might find them elsewhere in a search.

    Sorry. Didn't mean to ramble, folks. I started thinking about this and the words just poured out. Jercamp45, I'm not ranting at you or trying to beat you up. AT ALL. Ask the other folks here. I'm not like that. But if you envision this kind of an extreme scenario, think it all the way through and make plans accordingly. Other folks are and they are deadly serious. It won't be a game. Second place is DEAD.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    ExSoldier - Thanks for that post, it was very enlightening.

  13. #42
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    Ummmm, Thanks Ex soldier..

    Quite alot of info you presented there.
    Yes, I have been there, lived there a number of years, in the rain forests and mountains. Yes, I have a place of sorts...My brother and his wife(survivalist-types) live up there in a well stocked house and lotsa dogs. Raising critters, reloading, out away from town on a decent sized chunk of property.
    I hiked a 50 mile chunk of the Pacfic Crest Trail in that area, went through the USMC Mountain Warfare School and spent alot of time in/around Crater Lake Nat'l Park, Oregon(kinda the halfway point).
    I have no particular need to stay here in the desert with millions of gamblers, alcoholics, hispanics, druggies, unprepared casino workers and limited water supply when things get naughty...summer gets rather warm( without AC?). I am just here for the work.
    Yeah, things will be a *****.....but ya do what you can. I am good at hiding and moving quietly. Wish I had better than the AK...but you use what you got.
    There ain't no perfect solution. May not make it....old fart, glasses, etc....but it beats waiting around here amongst hordes I don't much care for anyway. I have made the trip between here and there before, under less stressful conditions, but know the way and prefer mountains to desert.
    Lucifer's Hammer was excellant...one of my favorite reads, read Great Living in grubby times too(not too long ago).
    Love your Avatar! Thanks for the info. And thanks for caring.
    Jercamp45
    Former Jarhead Grunt

  14. #43
    Member Array jercamp45's Avatar
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    oh yeah......

    ...you asked a question.
    How would I feel going up against a heavily armed, professional rifle squad with M-4's, SAW's and a couple of medium Machineguns?
    'Bout the same as any other lone rifleman out in the bush armed with ANY kinds of rifle.
    SUCKY.
    But I guess, I'd rather have the AK than about anything else(other than a suppressed shouldergun) in those circumstances. I know a thing or two about tactics, fire/manuever and defensive shooting....I'd try for the leaders, the commo man(if any) and heavy weapons first. Anyone looking like they were directing operations would become my next target.
    Chances are I'd be maggot meat real fast....as would anyone else facing those odds and firepower.
    However, it ain't what you got, but how you use it. And I can be a deviously ruthless merciless relentless sneaky SOB when I got to be...I have been in some situations in life where a very cold and naughty version of myself emerged and took over control...maybe a deep part of instinct honed by the months of military fieldwork. Whatever it is, I get real focussed, intense, precise and people that have seen it up front and personal say it is a very scary thing(I have no doubt).
    It served me very well prowlin' and growlin' for 2.5 years as security in a series of weekly/monthly drug infested hotels here in Vegas. I dealt with some real vermin, meth labs, crack dealers, ho's, gangbangers and wannabe's.
    Survival(and Life, in general) is all about facing the unknown... Improvise, Overcome, Adapt to whatever life throws at you. That is all you can do to the best of your ability until you move on to Whatever Lies Next.
    Sermon Ends...........

    CPL Campbell
    0351 USMC
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  15. #44
    Member Array paknheat's Avatar
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    Thanx to you two gents. You both bring things to mind that would be key to surviving. Think things through and deal the best you can with what you got.Dig deep and get mean-dog nasty, if you have to. Now i have got to read those books.
    A armed person is a citizen-An unarmed person is a future victim.

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