Survival Rifles

This is a discussion on Survival Rifles within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Mods, did a search, came empty handed, I'm really interested on this subject, let me know if I'm off topic. Lets pretend for a minute ...

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Thread: Survival Rifles

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    Question Survival Rifles

    Mods, did a search, came empty handed, I'm really interested on this subject, let me know if I'm off topic.

    Lets pretend for a minute that the world's oil(petro) supply is done, WW3 broke out, or whatever your favorite doomsday scenario you have in your mind is happening - today! Theres no more electricity or running water, and no hopes of local/national goverment action to help you in the short or long run - so pretty much you are back to the stone age (sounds like Katrina doesn't it?).

    What rifles would you like to have with you? You only get to carry 1 bolt action rifle and an 1 semiautomatic rifle, and 400 rounds for the team (significant other or good friend will be your partner). Both rifles have to be the same caliber and capable of 1MOA or better, as this rifles may have to be used in a scout/sniper role.

    Here is what I'm looking at: you'll have no cleaning gear (no cleaning rod, brush, patches, swabs, CLP/engine oil/other lubricants, etc - sounds like Murphy really got you this time), and you'll need to fire your rifle maybe once or twice a day (i.e. to collect food/fend off animals or dangerous humans). Distance to target would be in the point blank to 800yds range, and your only cleaning tools are water from a river/pond, your hands and maybe a rag.

    I started this quest with the an M14 rifle thread, but thought I could be leaving other good rifles out, so here we are. Please no "USA will never fall, we will always have our military to protect us, that will never happen" type of response; just what rifle would be the most reliable with the most abuse you can give (going through roughf terrain/mud/sand/snow/murkywater/etc.)

    Army SF / 18Bs / other services FTUs, what rifle are you seeing being used by guerillas/local tribes on your "advisor" trips - PM me if you don't want your ID on the open.

    Right now I'm leaning towards an M14 series (to turn it into an M21/25) on the semi arena, and a Remington 700 series on the bolt action - both in .308. I was also looking at the AKs series, but I think they won't be a 1MOA rifle - specially at the 500-800yds range.

    Your comments / sugestions are most welcome as long as they remain on the subject - what rifles would you depend on for your family's safety should doomsday ever come?

    Also, LEOs / military, try to keep your language in plain text, as we receive a lot of non military/LEO visitors who may benefit from the info you guys provide. Thanks in advance.

    Link to M14 thread:
    http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...ad.php?t=14028
    Last edited by cagueits; September 7th, 2006 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Typo / add link to M14 thread

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    If you can't clean it, period, you better just concentrate on the AK line. You'd have to search, but you should be able to find a bolt in 7.62x39, and with non-surplus ammo, at least one AK builder (the Firing Line) reports 1MOA, built on their milled receiver.

    The problem is this- w/o cleaning, and w/o a chromed bore, your barrel will seriously degrade with "serious" field usage. Given that, I would have 2 gallons of Marvel Mystery Oil (or Kroil), and a mid-weight moly grease (couple or three tubes). That would take care of your most minimalist needs for quite sometime. Bottom line: it is not possible to have totally "carefree", and "1MOA" accuracy in the same package.

    Best buys, for low maintenance and reasonable accuracy: Glock pistols, AKs (pick your price range, buy cheap only if you get to hand-select the rifle), and the Savage 110. If you must have a semi in .308, the G3 series is about as abuse-resistant as you can get. A PTR (US made) starts at about $700, and another $60 or so in parts will have you set for life. FALs have a great rep, as well. Both the G3 and FAL have cheaper, more accessible mags and parts than the M1/M14 system, right now.

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Having re-read the post- get an AK, spend $50 to get it Teflon coated. You will be able to clean it with boiling water and a rag, or just pi** the residue out of the receiver(literally). Reserve the Savage/Rem for 300yds+. Get anything you buy Teflon coated or chromed- I'm assuming that PR is like south Texas, with high humidity, seasonal rains, etc.? Good coatings are well worth the cost!

    Not being a smart-aleck, but real planning involves supporting your system(s). The afore-mentioned petrol products, and 4 old Tshirts would last you a looooong time. Get an Otis kit for the bolt.

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    I'd have to vote for "America's Rifle"...the M1 Garand!..

    .30-06 is a great all-around cartridge, especially out to 800 yards as you specified.

    See the Jeff Cooper quote in my sig line...
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    Not sure about matching the 1 MOA aspect!!

    Looking at what I have tho I'd go .308 and choose my Imbel FAL for semi and Rem 760 (pump) for my rifle. I know both weapons pretty well and reckon I could survive with those even without major cleaning. Both will stretch out to quite long ranges if need be.

    I would have to allow myself some foraging potential so as to improvise re lube at least - truck dipstick probably - and that would be part used for external protection. A piece of rag and a straightened out coat hanger would do for a bore treatment at a push.

    The FAL would go 400 rounds without needing a gas valve clean up I would expect.
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    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    first of all a person can make cleaning supplies from rags and scrap wire ,oil and grease can be extracted from animal fat. therefor you will always be able to clean your firearms. If I was limited to a bolt action and one semiauto I would go with a savage in 308 and a springfield M1a in 308. For defense or hinting one does not need a rifle that shoots 1MOA A lever action rifle is far more dependable then a semi-auto and can be fired nearly as fast and with the new ammo that is out has a range of nearly 300 yards now.

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    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    That 1MOA thing might not be too hard to get, but with no cleaning, it'll be a bear to keep.

    So I'll ignore it and preach one of my favorite gospels: MosinM44, MosinM44, MosinM44, MosinM44.

    Reliable as a weapon comes. Some are capable of fine, maybe even 1 MOA accuracy. Tough. Durable. Easy to maintain. Lots of knockdown power.

    And they are truly multi-use, dual (or plural) technology pieces.

    You can use one as a weiner roaster or a tent pole (with the bayonet extended), a boat oar, a battering ram, a club, a coffee grinder (that steel butt plate), etc., and in a real pinch, firewood!

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    +1 to Raeven's Answer/ comment.
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    Lew
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    In an end of the world situation, I really would not mind having Dads ruger .44 Carbine and matching .44mag blackhawk. While it is not great at a long distance like you specify, I live in Maine where the only place you can see over 200 Yards is on a shoreline of a big body of water or a powerline! The carbine is a great brush gun, so the daily deer hunt would go ok going thru the thick Maine woods. Having only one type of ammo for both the food getter and the BG stopper is appealing. (do they make a 30-06 pistol?)

    I Love to shoot my old 30-30 winchester 94, but EOW (End Of World) I really don't know what I would want. I suppose in a different location where long distance is really needed, a decient 30-06 or .308 would be nice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew View Post
    In an end of the world situation, I really would not mind having Dads ruger .44 Carbine and matching .44mag blackhawk. While it is not great at a long distance like you specify, I live in Maine where the only place you can see over 200 Yards is on a shoreline of a big body of water or a powerline! The carbine is a great brush gun, so the daily deer hunt would go ok going thru the thick Maine woods. Having only one type of ammo for both the food getter and the BG stopper is appealing. (do they make a 30-06 pistol?)

    I Love to shoot my old 30-30 winchester 94, but EOW (End Of World) I really don't know what I would want. I suppose in a different location where long distance is really needed, a decient 30-06 or .308 would be nice.
    Yup , your ight , here in Maine there really are no "800 yd " shots . Actually lucky to get anything more than 100 yds of line of sight. Brush guns (such as a 30-30 ) are more in line with what would be needed here . I would also rather have a rifle/pistol combo than a rifle/rifle combo . Little harder finding a combo that shares the same rounds , but a little research and you can find them .

    BTW , actual location in the "scenario" is very important as to weapon choice .

    As for my choice , I would use what I already have , glock22/kel-tec sub2000 , same ammo and mags and gets me out to 100+yds as well as up close and personal .

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array hsuCowboy98's Avatar
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    .308 M1A, and a .308 Savage or Remington Tactical rifle. Nuff said.
    Fear No Evil.

  13. #12
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    I Love to shoot my old 30-30 winchester 94, but EOW (End Of World) I really don't know what I would want. I suppose in a different location where long distance is really needed, a decient 30-06 or .308 would be nice.
    Remember Lew, it's the man not the machine! The latest greatest tacticool equipment won't be of any benefit if you ain't a rifleman first. Look at it this way, ballisticly, your ol model 94 is just a lever actuated AK.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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    I'll take my HK G3 and Savage Tactical, both in .308.
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    Good Choices ALL. Any More? Good Thread.
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  16. #15
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raevan View Post
    oil and grease can be extracted from animal fat. therefor you will always be able to clean your firearms.
    Could you go over the process briefly or suggest sources of info on the matter? I'm from the city; I received some survival training in the Marines (did a couple rotations through the now defunct JOTB in Ft. Sherman, Panama), however this is a whole different ball game. I'm gona have to find a hunter's school
    Last edited by cagueits; September 8th, 2006 at 08:42 PM. Reason: Typo - forgot the D in find :p

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