At the risk of sounding ignorant... - Page 2

At the risk of sounding ignorant...

This is a discussion on At the risk of sounding ignorant... within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by atctimmy OP (can I call you Grace?) what is your primary intended role for this rifle and what is your budget? This ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 31
Like Tree8Likes

Thread: At the risk of sounding ignorant...

  1. #16
    Member Array lyz_grace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    251
    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    OP (can I call you Grace?) what is your primary intended role for this rifle and what is your budget? This will give us a good starting point and help us point you in the right direction.
    You may! I suppose the primary role will be a range gun, but anything I spend money on should be SHTF-capable, too. My original post was actually just asking for some good rifle reference material, but I'm glad everyone has offered suggestions, too, I've gotten a lot out of this

    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    The smaller the caliber + less stank behind the bullet = need for supreme accuracy on the part of the operator.

    .22lr = sniper skills
    5.56/.223/5.45 = above average shooting skills
    7.62/.308 = fair shooting skills
    12ga = point and shoot.
    Great breakdown - thank you!!

    To QKShooter, PB2, and dukalmighty - even though I might eventually like a .22 for cheap and easy range time, I think I want something with a little more boom for the buck that I have at the moment. I DO love Ruger, though, and the Mini 14 that PB2 mentioned looks awesome. I'd rather spend more on something I know will last, so ultimately, with the firearm, starting ammo, and accessories, I expect to pay upwards or over 1k. Between school loans and a student spouse, though, this is going to be a few months down the road for me. I like doing my research ahead of time!


  2. #17
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    16,026
    Lots of choices out there. Maybe see what is available to try or rent locally or through other gun owners. FYI , you still need to aim a shotgun to hit stuff.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,226
    Although not the best resource, Wikipedia is a good starting place to get a good idea of the general aspects of each rifle. (What they look like, what caliber(s) they shoot, where they came from, etc etc.) I'd start by checking out the AR and AK platforms, as they are the most popular platforms for good reasons. (Not perfect, but IMO there is no such thing as a perfect rifle/firearm. It's always a series of compromises and dependent on the circumstances.)

    I agree that every household should have a Ruger 10/22. Inexpensive, decently made, cheap to shoot, and nearly unparalleled aftermarket choices to customize it to your liking. But as a self defense rifle, it wouldn't be the rifle I'd grab unless it was the closest.

    Anyways, back to your original question... I would check out Wikipedia to get a little base knowledge, then find forums specifically made for that platform. (Also, read through all the threads here!)

  4. #19
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,426
    OK Grace there is lots of stuff out there that you can plink with at the range but if you want a gun to double as a SHTF gun there are only a few choices.

    The most popular choices are the ARs and the AKs. People will argue which is better until they are blue in the face so you'll need to study both and decide what's best for you.

    They both have pros and cons compared to each other but nothing else really comes close to them in terms of availability, parts, magazines, ammo and things that you might need for a SHTF situation.

    Both guns have been in production for 50+ years and have been made in such high numbers that they aren't too expensive. Because of the sheer numbers of them there are plenty of reasonably priced parts, mags and accessories as well. (<- IMO this is the downfall of the Ruger Mini14 and Mini30. There's not enough cheap parts/mags out there because you have to go through Ruger for everything and Ruger makes you pay top dollar.)

    Also the standard AK round (7.62X39) and the standard AR round (5.56X45) were/are produced by the billions and can be had for considerably less than other calibers/chamberings.

    So to sum up: In a SHTF situation when ammo or parts might be in demand the AR and the AK give you the best chance to keep your gun running. Also they deliver allot of firepower to the user.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Quote Originally Posted by lyzgrace View Post
    :SNIP:
    I suppose the primary role will be a range gun, but anything I spend money on should be SHTF-capable, too.:
    SNIP:
    I think that you are in the position most of us find ourselves in. If you plan on shooting this rifle and enjoy accuracy more than just spraying bullets at the target I would go with the AR. It is known for accuracy whereas the Ruger Mini 14 is not know as a target gun. Both use the same ammo and both are fully capable of spraying huge amounts of ammo on the target. When you get past rapid fire though the AR takes over in its ability to also be a fine target rifle if properly configured.

    The 7.62x39 is cheaper to shoot when using surplus ammo than most cartridges are. The rifles that fire it are a blast when blasting away in casual rapid fire. But if you decide to use it for serious target shooting you ming be disappointed. Depends on if you are satisfied with sub one inch groups or palm sized groups. Both can be fun depending on what you are happy with.

    My SHTF gun is my old M1-A Super Match rifle in 7.62x51 Nato or .308. It will retain energy for a longer distance than the AR platforms using the 5.56/22 rounds. Not something you will notice unless trying to take out living targets at extreme ranges. It is deadly accurate. It is also much more expensive to shoot than the .5.56. Also it is much more expensive to maintain. Just try buying parts for one. Want to change barrels on a AR simple. On a M1-A its a major operation.

    Another choice for a 'Tactical rifle' would be a nice accurate bolt gun. Super accurate. Available in any caliber made. Some such as Savage can easily be changed from one caliber to another at home with easy barrel swaps. When you get older you will appreciate a nice accurate single shot or bolt action repeater if you save your brass. I find that as I get older crawling around on the ground policing my brass is a lot less dignified and a lot more painful than it was when I was young.

    My rifles of choice for SHTF are more accuracy based. My thinking is that I will be using this rifle for target shooting. Doing that is no fun with an inaccurate rifle. On the slim chance that I am attacked by Zombies it will handle that also. On the other side not all Zombie rifles will handle target shooting.

    EDIT: Even if your emphasis is on Zombies and not accurate target shooting you must remember this. Zombies can only be stopped with head shots. Miss the head and they will drag you down and eat your flesh.

    Michael

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    ct
    Posts
    1,942
    Arthritis sucks big-big
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  7. #22
    sgb
    sgb is offline
    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    You don't need to know
    Posts
    2,414
    AR's are women friendly. AR's can be had in a plethora of calibers, .22, 9mm, .40, .45, 5.56. 5.45, 762x39, 300 BLK, 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendal, 458 SOCOM just to name a few. There are more accessories for the AR than there are for most any other firearm. AR's are modular, the lego's of the gun world making them easy to self repair and maintain.

    My niece running a 5.56 SBR
    mlr1m likes this.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

  8. #23
    Member Array lyz_grace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    251
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    Although not the best resource, Wikipedia is a good starting place to get a good idea of the general aspects of each rifle. (What they look like, what caliber(s) they shoot, where they came from, etc etc.)
    I feel the leftover college student in me die a little each time I Wiki something, but it has definitely helped with my understanding a lot. Maybe not fully reliable, but they sure know how to dumb stuff down for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I think that you are in the position most of us find ourselves in. If you plan on shooting this rifle and enjoy accuracy more than just spraying bullets at the target I would go with the AR. It is known for accuracy whereas the Ruger Mini 14 is not know as a target gun. Both use the same ammo and both are fully capable of spraying huge amounts of ammo on the target. When you get past rapid fire though the AR takes over in its ability to also be a fine target rifle if properly configured.
    <snip>
    My rifles of choice for SHTF are more accuracy based. My thinking is that I will be using this rifle for target shooting. Doing that is no fun with an inaccurate rifle. On the slim chance that I am attacked by Zombies it will handle that also. On the other side not all Zombie rifles will handle target shooting.

    EDIT: Even if your emphasis is on Zombies and not accurate target shooting you must remember this. Zombies can only be stopped with head shots. Miss the head and they will drag you down and eat your flesh.

    Michael
    As mostly a target (paper, cans, broken electronics, an old piano...) shooter, I will definitely appreciate accuracy more. And the zombie stopping ability, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    Haha, I found that in my search and posted it on my previous page. Not from the same site, but looks like somebody just copied and pasted


    Okay... another dumb question... I understand handgun ammo, but there are a lot of numbers floating around here.... 7.62x51, 7.62x39, 5.56/22, 5.56X45, 10/22, .223, 5.45, .308... With the Ruger 10/22 I understood it just shoots .22lr, so what's the 10/ for? Model? For the 7.62/51 vs 7.62/39... which number is technically the caliber and what is the / or x differentiating it between?

  9. #24
    sgb
    sgb is offline
    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    You don't need to know
    Posts
    2,414



    5.56x45 mm is the standard AR caliber.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Quote Originally Posted by lyz_grace View Post
    :SNIP:
    Okay... another dumb question... I understand handgun ammo, but there are a lot of numbers floating around here.... 7.62x51, 7.62x39, 5.56/22, 5.56X45, 10/22, .223, 5.45, .308... With the Ruger 10/22 I understood it just shoots .22lr, so what's the 10/ for? Model? For the 7.62/51 vs 7.62/39... which number is technically the caliber and what is the / or x differentiating it between?
    7.62 is the caliber. the /51 or /39 designates case length.

    Michael

  11. #26
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,426
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    7.62 is the caliber. the /51 or /39 designates case length.

    Michael
    OK there is some confusion with cartridges because they can be named for marketing purposes, in inches or in metric.

    Example: The .308 and the 7.62X51 are basically the same round. .308 is the civilian term (.308 inches is also the bullet diameter) and 7.62X51 NATO is the military name. When reading a military designation you read the diameter of the bullet first in millimeters (7.62). Then the X is pronounced "by". Lastly the last number is the case length in millimeters (51).

    So 5.56X45 reads "Five point five six by forty five". Slang would be "Five five six by 45" or "Five fifty six by forty five".

    Rifles chambered in 5.56X45 Nato can fire both the 5.56X45 round and .223 Remington round. The other way around doesn't work though.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  12. #27
    Member Array lyz_grace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    251
    Lordy - I feel like I oughta be paying you guys for this! Thanks for taking the time to explain, makes MUCH more sense now

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    2,626
    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    ...Rifles chambered in 5.56X45 Nato can fire both the 5.56X45 round and .223 Remington round. The other way around doesn't work though.
    Might want to clarify a little here - The "other way around" WILL work, but in many guns it's not safe, and it will accelerate wear on the gun. A notable exception is the Mini-14. It's marked (and marketed) as a .223, but it was designed for 5.56x45 and runs them just fine (except for the "target" models).

    Regards,
    Jim

  14. #29
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,426
    Quote Originally Posted by lyz_grace View Post
    Lordy - I feel like I oughta be paying you guys for this! Thanks for taking the time to explain, makes MUCH more sense now
    We are here to talk guns. It's what we do. : )

    Ask away.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,411
    BTW - Realistically, a SHTF rifle will only last you as long as it continues to operate, or you have ammo. Loss of either means you are going to ditch it for what ever you can scavenge at the moment.

    Me - If I am in a bug out, I have 200 rounds and a properly functioning rifle, and I come across a different rifle with better capabilities, or more ammo, I am dropping what I have (probably going to be an arse and disable my current rifle - hate to have someone/something else use it against me) and upgrading. Not going to bank on finding what I need for my current weapon farther down the path.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

30 08 ammo
,
5.56 nato bullet drop chart
,
5.56x45 bullet drop chart
,
7.62 x 39 vs 308
,
all ar calibers
,

ar calibers

,
bullet drop of 5.56x45
,
powered by mybb paintball gun sniper rifles
,
powered by mybb paintball sniper gun
,
printable bullet size chart
,
printable rifle ammo size chart
,
sounding ignorant
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors