Complete Uppers or Upper Builds

This is a discussion on Complete Uppers or Upper Builds within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Personally, yes I'd go with a 16" instead. You give up very little velocity and all things being equal, a shorter barrel will be just ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Personally, yes I'd go with a 16" instead. You give up very little velocity and all things being equal, a shorter barrel will be just as accurate or even slightly more accurate. Now, Centurion uppers/barrels have a gaurunteed 1 MOA accuracy with the right ammo, which would be something like 77gr Mk262 or similar. That's a chrom lined barrel.

    Centurion also offers a great 16" barrel which is a Douglass turned down by Compass Lake. This is the same barrel (though 18") that's used in the military's Mk12.

    Personally, I'd go with the standard chrome lined 16" from Centurion if it's primary purpose is hunting. It's light weight and easy to carry all day, as accurate as some stainless barrels and overall just an awesome company. Monty LeClaire is an active duty SEAL, an expert in small arms and he's who you'll likely communicate with when you contact them.

    I'm trying to decide on a 12.5" barrel right now and I want the Centurion. My only issue is I want a Kino setup with the front sight block out front and a low pro gas block. Due to Centurion's profile which is between a lightweight and govt, I'm not sure I can get it to work. If not, I'll have to go with BCM.

    Now, whatever you choose, I wouldn't go longer than 16" and I'd stick to a mid length gas system.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Geesh Jon, what did you do, cut and paste from my thread last year?

    Not that I am an expert, or even have a decent baseline for comparison, but I am loving my Centurion 16" middy (CHF)...that Jon recommended. Coupled with a Vltor receiver and Vltor A5 receiver tube & Emod stock it is an extremely pleasant rifle to shoot (recoil, muzzle jump, weight). I wanted mine to be an Multi Purpose Rifle, so I went 16". If you know that it will only be dedicated to hunting and bench shooting, I'd lean more towards the Centurion 18" DMR, and get into reloading so you can load up your own MK262 [77gr] or 69gr match quality rounds hella cheaper than buying Black Hills @ $.50 a shot. Costs me around $.30 per round using Accurate 2230, SMK 77gr HPBT, and CCI 400 primers.

    I have yet to tune mine (MK262) so my 16" may very well get 1 moa with it. I know I am getting better than 2 moa with my M193 best guess reloads with a 2 moa RDS shooting prone off the mag. Just the loss in velocity is also a loss in effective range - which translates into gotta have the better accuracy skills.
    Sticks

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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I should just save a copy!

    For the 16" vs 18", we're talking less than 50 feet per second. I'll take the size and slight advantage in reliability in the 16". But, I use mine for different purposes as well as hunting.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  5. #19
    Member Array 1boredguy's Avatar
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    I love my BCM midlength with LaRue 12" Stealth rail. If I had to do it again though, I'd buy a lightweight barrel. Saves weight, and a BCM lightweight barrel can take care of business just fine.
    I am happy that my Stealth upper is 12", but at the end of the day it's just freakin heavy... The Troy TRX, Noveske NSR, or Samson Evolution would be better IMO.

    I'm checking out Rainier Arms now, they have some very nicely priced uppers with that Samson 12" Evolution rail PLUS Rainier's comp.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1boredguy View Post
    I love my BCM midlength with LaRue 12" Stealth rail. If I had to do it again though, I'd buy a lightweight barrel. Saves weight, and a BCM lightweight barrel can take care of business just fine.
    I am happy that my Stealth upper is 12", but at the end of the day it's just freakin heavy... The Troy TRX, Noveske NSR, or Samson Evolution would be better IMO.

    I'm checking out Rainier Arms now, they have some very nicely priced uppers with that Samson 12" Evolution rail PLUS Rainier's comp.
    Rainer arms is great. I am running a Rainer Arms Billet Upper these days and I love it. The make and sell great stuff. If people have not heard of them because they aren't from the NW then they should seriously give them a look.
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  7. #21
    Member Array Medic218's Avatar
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    Well, I ended up deciding to go with a 6.8 SPC II after I found out I had won an aoudad hunt and knew my 5.56 might not be able to handle that particular critter. The 6.8 will more than fulfill my needs for hogs and anything else I decide to hunt in the future so I figured "why not".

    I don't know if anyone is interested in my build or not but here is the list I have. I just placed my final order and should be good to go from here as soon as it all comes in. There may be a small part or two that I can't think of at the moment but at least all the major components are taken care of.

    Lower
    Spike's Tactical Stripped Lower
    Palmetto State Armory Lower Parts Kit w/o Fire Control Group
    ARFX Skeleton Stock
    AR15 A2 Rifle Stock Completion Kit
    MAGPUL MIAD Pistol Grip
    Spike's Tactical Billet Trigger Guard
    Geissele SSA-E

    Upper
    AR 15 Performance 16" 6.8 - 4150 CMV Scout Profile Barrel
    VLTOR MUR Upper Receiver
    ITS Extreme Duty NiB Bolt Carrier Group
    5X4 Compensator
    Samson Evolution Free Float Tube 11"
    BCM Gun Fighter MOD 4(Med) Charging Handle
    VLTOR Low Profile Gas Block
    Mid-Length Gas Tube
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array frankmako's Avatar
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    i do about one build a year. i buy my parts off the net from different sites and trading posts. one part here, one part there. if you shop and look around you can build the upper that will do what you want at a very low cost. my current build is ready and i have $450.00 in it. it has high end parts (colt, rra, lmt), mid end parts (bushmaster, tapco) and mil spec parts.
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  9. #23
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    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Just need to know where to look. Give Neil a call at Gun Gallery in Jacksonville.
    Excellent advice, Neil knows his stuff and goes the extra mile.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Personally, yes I'd go with a 16" instead. You give up very little velocity and all things being equal, a shorter barrel will be just as accurate or even slightly more accurate. Now, Centurion uppers/barrels have a gaurunteed 1 MOA accuracy with the right ammo, which would be something like 77gr Mk262 or similar. That's a chrom lined barrel.

    Centurion also offers a great 16" barrel which is a Douglass turned down by Compass Lake. This is the same barrel (though 18") that's used in the military's Mk12.

    Personally, I'd go with the standard chrome lined 16" from Centurion if it's primary purpose is hunting. It's light weight and easy to carry all day, as accurate as some stainless barrels and overall just an awesome company. Monty LeClaire is an active duty SEAL, an expert in small arms and he's who you'll likely communicate with when you contact them.

    I'm trying to decide on a 12.5" barrel right now and I want the Centurion. My only issue is I want a Kino setup with the front sight block out front and a low pro gas block. Due to Centurion's profile which is between a lightweight and govt, I'm not sure I can get it to work. If not, I'll have to go with BCM.

    Now, whatever you choose, I wouldn't go longer than 16" and I'd stick to a mid length gas system.
    Correct, correct and again correct !!

    When the Mk12 was first fielded we had some problems with them. It wasn't until we realized that it was optimized for the Mk262 ammunition that we saw the results that we had come to expect from a 5.56 platform developed for DMR work and some sniper applications. It's still a 1:7 twist rate out of an 18" barrel.

    I'm a believer in the LMT CQB MRP system. I recently purchased the 12" piston conversion for mine. It's a fine piece of hardware.

    Never purchased or used any of Monty LeClaire stuff but I've heard nothing but stellar reviews of his work.

    Good post !
    Perhaps your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

  11. #25
    Member Array seapuppy's Avatar
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    I just had 2 custom built m4's for me.....the guy swears by citidel barrels....so far so good....been great for me..


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  12. #26
    Member Array Medic218's Avatar
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    A little update for those who may possibly be interested.
    I'm half way there. I'll be picking up my lower in a few hours and will have it done no later than Friday night.




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    "I don't like repeat offenders, I like DEAD offenders!" -- Ted Nugent
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