Type of Shell and Mix for your 12 Guage Pump (home defense) - What do you prefer?

Back a couple lives/jobs ago, our cruiser gun standard (didn't have a rifle in the car, just the shotgun) was alternating 00 then slug. I asked why and got several different answers, one of which I think was was along the lines of "why don't you get yourself a warm cup of shut the hell up." We had a high-tech ultralight reload system too - they were made of a wood fiber composite material, held five rounds each, and you could quickly tell what kind of projectiles were in each by what was printed on the sides.

Today, I'm a simpler man. 2 3/4" 00 will do any job that needs to be done inside the house, so that's in the mag and on the side. I've got a boxes of 00 and 1 Oz slugs in the ammo boxes in different barricade rooms for the worst case scenario. At room ranges, I'm sure #4 would do just fine, but then what would I bring to the turkey blind? I'm with gasmitty about sabot - if I need that, a rifle is a better tool for the job.

We routinely use 00 Buck to qualify with...until they ran out at the range once and one guy was allowed to use the 0000 (4x) Buck... and cut the whole target to nothing but the tiny bits of paper on the holders. Basically 00 buck is about 13 or so pellets the size of a .32 round. The 0000 buck looks like bb's. Imagine getting hit by an entire tube of bb's at once from a hot loaded 12ga shell and you get the picture here. Now imagine getting hit by three or more of those rounds... Even if they had body armor on, they're pretty much FUBAR. Armor can stop 00 buck and probably slugs (because the size of it gets caught by the kevlar, etc) but when you have tons of little angry hornets flying at you there's nothing you can do about it but suffer. I've also seen some specialty rounds from 2x balls with a wire, one big ball with a bunch of 00 buck, etc. Nothing compares to that big load of bb's, except maybe a Mossburg 835 Ulti-Mag shotgun with 3 1/2 magnum turkey shell that's a hotter version of the same thing. One shot completely "shreds" a 2 liter bottle to nothing. The ONLY other thing I've seen that would be worse is called a Dragon's Breath round that spews white-hot burning fire downrange about 100ft. One home-invasion burglar made it inside a residence and the homeowner blasted him with one shot. Cops found him half back out the window, still smoking and burnt to a crisp.

Once you get to individual pellets that are smaller than #1 buck, you run the risk of under-penetration. Yes, BB loads and birdshot can produce very nasty wounds, but they tend to be shallow. You need pellets to reach the vitals, which may be shielded by the attackers hands, forearms, etc.

Dragon's breath? Inside a house? Great. Defeat the BG, while setting your own house on fire. :popout: :doh:

This is making me think on how I may downsize a bit on the loads. I'm programmed to think breaching and CQB with Tangos. This is making me consider a more defensive posture than offensive posture, though I'm pretty sure I'll still agressivly clear the house after any engagement. Trained that way.

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Originally Posted by bmcgilvray

Any staggering of different loads in any firearm only smacks of indecisiveness on the part of the user. Such a practice yields no real benefit unless it assuages angst for the user.

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Not indecisive in the least; thought out in the likely order of "battle" with closest contact (#1) to do maximum internal damage from bouncing off bone etc, increasing size as anticipated distance increases and likelihood of obstacles such as sheet rock and padded furniture.

in my 20 gauge break open (cheap and effective)- and my Winchester Model 12 i use 7 1/2 shot (what i use on dove)....mainly because 99.99999999999999999999999999999999 % of the time i am using it on skunks/rattlesnakes/armadillos/possums/ect...PTL i live in the country :danceban:

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Originally Posted by Gunsmoke16

The ONLY other thing I've seen that would be worse is called a Dragon's Breath round that spews white-hot burning fire downrange about 100ft. One home-invasion burglar made it inside a residence and the homeowner blasted him with one shot. Cops found him half back out the window, still smoking and burnt to a crisp.

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One time at band camp this home invader broke in and we shot him to death with our sonic tuba.


OK on a serious note, I like to alternate between 00 buck and oo buck in my shotgun mag tube. Also on the cuff I like to keep OO buckshot just for variety.

I use number 4 buck...effective on Turkey vultures..coyotes..skunks..after my stock, and I would assume, snag toothed tweekers....Was told years ago by Martin Kasser, a renowned killer of grizzly bear and other game that the proper load for a grizzily backup up shotgun was#4 buck then ball...the buck is to slow down,(stagger) the ball is to drop the animals blood pressure..buck up first for a better chance of a important quick hit, then down to buisness...witnessed the aftermath of the use and practice by Martin...been a believer ever since...lately #4buck gets used on large raptors and vulture's that covet my birds...
I call it the #4 lottery...but it works...and I dont own any ball

7+1 of #2 buck for me with slugs on the side saddle.

I live in a apartment. Because of this I load my 870 with #4 buck instead of 00 buck.


I'm confident #4 buck will do the trick.

IMO it's a shotgun, should be used as one. 00,000 #2,3,4 buck, even field rounds, whatever. If you are thinking about slugs, use a rifle, unless you don't have one. A good rifled barrel will shoot about as well as a rifle out to 100 yds. or so.
But as far as a shotgun goes, use it for what it's intended...and thats not a rifle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29mE...e_gdata_player

My HD shotgun is an older 870 police shotgun. I now have the extended magazine on it. I keep 2 #OO buck in the very end of the magazine. Everything in front of that is #4 buck (21 - .24" pellets). #4 buck should have plenty of lethal stopping power at short ranges without me being accused by the courts of being an overkill vigilante.

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Originally Posted by boatail

IMO it's a shotgun, should be used as one. 00,000 #2,3,4 buck, even field rounds, whatever. If you are thinking about slugs, use a rifle, unless you don't have one. A good rifled barrel will shoot about as well as a rifle out to 100 yds. or so.
But as far as a shotgun goes, use it for what it's intended...and thats not a rifle.

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Yep, it's a blunderbus! My training is in breaching and CQB. The slugs are not intended for long range. I've rebuilt most of the interior of my house, and know exactly where to shoot through what structures to get effect on targets, in other rooms. Note/Disclaimer: I live alone most of the time. If anyone is in the house, and not invited/know to me, they are a Tango.

On another note, and why I joined this Great Forum, thank you to everyone for your advice. I'm considering downsizing to more controllable loads for interior home defense, but keeping the slugs for choosing when I need to do some demolition to not expose myself. Drywall and framing are easy repairs! The hardwood floors are another story (shoot high! LOL).

Chances are, I will never have to fire a round in my house, ever. But, not being prepared is a poor excuse.

I got the rifle(s), however, beyond the handguns that may be in play, the 12 G is my home defense weapon.

Thank you everyone for the great advice.

How 'bout this? Best of both worlds: one side slugs, other side buck!

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