Bravo Company vs Daniel Defense

Bravo Company vs Daniel Defense

This is a discussion on Bravo Company vs Daniel Defense within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm looking for my second AR-15 and would like some opinions. I currently have a S&W M&P OR, 5.56, and it's great, but it's a ...

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    Member Array dnilson's Avatar
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    Bravo Company vs Daniel Defense

    I'm looking for my second AR-15 and would like some opinions. I currently have a S&W M&P OR, 5.56, and it's great, but it's a 1:9 twist and I've decided I wanted a second AR that's a little more powerful. I had an Armalite 308., but for several reasons (including the price of ammo) decided to take it back. From what I've read, with a 1:7 twist, I can shoot loads that are a lot more powerful, or I can use my regular 55 grain rounds. I've narrowed it down to the Daniel Defense M4 Carbine V5 or the Bravo Company Recce-14. I really want the BCM, but it could easily be SEVERAL months...maybe longer, before I'd get one. On the other hand, I've found a great DD V5, but it's not QUITE as nice as the BCM. To be honest, the differences minimal, but I have a thing for chrome, plus I want an AR that will be a TANK. The BCM Recce-14 was designed for the navy seals, everything is chromed, MPI and Mil-spec...about as good as it gets!!!!! Don't get me wrong, the DD is no slouch, but it's just not quite as nice. Plus, they're both roughly the same price. I wish I could just go ahead and get the DD now and order the BCM, but it has to be paid for before you can place an order and I don't have THAT much extra cash

    I've really got the bug, so I'll probably end up getting both. I guess I've answered my own question. Besides, with the way things are going...prices going up and inventory going down, I feel like I should get both. Guess I'll get the DD now and save my money so I can order the BCM. What do you guys think? Am I crazy to have 2-3 ARs? I know people who have one for each member of their family and a couple of people who have major arsenals!!! I am NOT a survivalist and don't see TEOTWAWKI happening anytime soon. I just LOVE these rifles!!!!
    Pistols: Glock 21SF, Glock 30SF, Colt 1911 GCT (all .45ACP),
    Revolvers: Ruger SP 101 (.357MAG/.38SP), Judge (.410G/.45LC)

    Long guns: Daniel Defense AR-15's (M4V4 and M4V5), Mossberg Shotguns (400 and 500, both 12G), Ruger (.22;LR)


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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnilson View Post
    I'm looking for my second AR-15 ... Guess I'll get the DD now and save my money so I can order the BCM. irrelevant stuff
    Glad we could help

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Hmmm.....

    Option 3 - Save the money from buying another AR or 3, buy some ammo, and take a class or two (Mike Pannone and Pat MacNamera - highly recommended). You will triple your enjoyment of the platform, then you can configure any additions to your own needs, rather than what was "designed" for an agency.

    No doubt the two manufactures you have chosen are of the best you can get, however... after taking a class you may find yourself assembling your own - much more satisfying.
    DontTreadOnI likes this.
    Sticks

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    Member Array redbeardsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnilson View Post
    The BCM Recce-14 was designed for the navy seals, everything is chromed, MPI and Mil-spec...about as good as it gets!!!!! Don't get me wrong, the DD is no slouch, but it's just not quite as nice.


    Daniel Defense is better than milspec. They have Cold Hammer Forged barrels, flared , and QD sling attachment points. I've sold both of those guns at work. The BCM is very nice, and I considered buying that very gun, but I don't see it as any better than the DD.

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    RKM
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    If you want an entire new AR just for a different barrel, that's just silly. You can easily just buy a new barrel for much cheaper than an entire rifle. And so you know, you can shoot heavier weight bullets out of a 1:9. I've shot 77gr as far as 100 yards with no problems. It's a stretch, but the 1:9 can handle it. The 1:7 will make it easier and will fire 77gr even further. But no reason to buy an entire new AR for that reason alone.

    However, if you want another AR for the sake of having two, or want it for different reasons, then by all means, buy a new AR. Daniel Defense rifles are high end and BCM is basically, simply Mil-Spec. Both are better built and higher quality than M&P15's, not to say M&P15's are junk (I own one and enjoy it). So unless you have the itch to just have a new AR because you want another one or need another one for different reasons (other than just different barrel twist), I see no real need to buy an completely new rifle for just a different barrel twist. Just my IMO of course.

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    Distinguished Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnilson View Post
    What do you guys think? Am I crazy to have 2-3 ARs? I know people who have one for each member of their family:
    Crazy? No. (At least not if you ask on a gun forum)
    You just want to be prepared.
    -Things break
    -Prices go up
    -Certain products get restricted by a stupid, ineffective 1994 or 20__ "assault weaponds ban".
    -The one is none, two is one logic that applies to flashlights

    The people you know that have one for each member of their family understand the concept of equality .
    If you have two boys (for example) how could you possibly have just one AR?
    "Bob, I want you to have this Daniel Defence M4 V5 when I'm gone; uuuhhhh, Steve you get the el cheapo bolt action .22lr"
    No internal lock or magazine disconnect on my pistols!

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I have more than a few ARs. BUT, each one is configured for a specific need, whether that's a work rifle, home defense, hunting, precision at the local range, 8" through 20", etc.

    The BCM Recce was not designed for the Navy SEALs. The Recce was a Crane build that filled a DMR type role. Many rifles can be referred to as Recce (pronounced Wreckie), though that's not an American thing. The Brits came up with that term, which is short for reconnaissance. Basically a standard M4, possibly a free float rail and a magnified optic.

    Daniel Defense is the only one of the two that provides anything to Special Operations (including the SEALs…). Besides Colt, they and Knight's Armament (front and rear BUIS) are the only M4 manufacturers that has anything in the SOPMOD Block II enhancement kit for Special Operations.

    If the set up is the same, you will not notice a difference between the Daniel Defense and the BCM. They are built to the exact same standard. Both offer standard and cold hammer forged barrels. Same chrome lining. Same finish. There will be no difference in their lowers. Their bolt carrier groups will be the same. I choose BCM (Daniel Defense for my hand guards) because of my history with them and their customer service. Daniel Defense is just as good, I just know the BCM people better. Daniel Defense hammer forges their own barrels. BCM sources them. Neither means the other is better.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Member Array dnilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Glad we could help
    I know I answered my own question, but I would still like to get some opinions about these two particular rifles and ARs in general. For example, does anyone here own one or the other of these ARs or have a friend who does? Do you/they like them? They're both in the neighborhood of $1400, which is very close to the MSRP. Are they overpriced? I think so. You used to be able to buy ARs at several hundred LESS than MSRP...or so I've heard. Is this true? If so, that's craziy! Is it stupid to have several ARs, especially high end models? This is the type of advice/info I'm looking for. There's another web site that I frequent and thought about posting there, but it seems that EVERYONE on that board is military, paramilitary, law enforcement, etc. MOST of them already have at least half a dozen ARs! So I posted it here because I'm just a regular person who happens to like ARs. I'd love to have a .308 but the cost of ammo is prohibitive. You used to be able to buy ammo online for really great prices, but now, the prices online are MORE than they are locally...at least where I live. I can still afford the 5.56...for now. I don't know how to reload ammunition, but I may have to learn. At "the other site", everyone is really worried about Obama and what may happen if he gets re-elected. This is fueling a lot of the buying...which I'm sure is not news to most of you guys, but thats something else to think about. If NEW AR sales are banned (but you can still own them), it would make sense to buy several of them now while you still can!!!! I'm just interested in hearing what some of you think.

    FYI, I wrote this post last night, before there were any responses. Apparently it didn't actually post until this morning...don't know why, but THANK YOU all for the responses!!! This is the type of info I was looking for!!! Also, the reason I want a second AR is not because of the barrel, it's just because I want a second AR and it makes sense to get one that's a little different, of a higher quality and will give me a little more power. Regarding the BCM being built for the navy seals, I'm almost certain that I got that info from the actual BCM web site. Guess you can't believe every thing you read...even on a company web site!
    Last edited by dnilson; May 25th, 2012 at 11:53 AM.
    Pistols: Glock 21SF, Glock 30SF, Colt 1911 GCT (all .45ACP),
    Revolvers: Ruger SP 101 (.357MAG/.38SP), Judge (.410G/.45LC)

    Long guns: Daniel Defense AR-15's (M4V4 and M4V5), Mossberg Shotguns (400 and 500, both 12G), Ruger (.22;LR)

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Did you read the replies?

    It's not stupid if you have a use… even if that use is just to plink with them once a month. Buy what makes you happy.

    If you think a BCM or DD is overpriced, then STOP right now. Research as much as you can and understand what they are. These are some of the most reliable rifles available. You can get into a BCM for about a grand without a railed hand guard. If you want to save a couple bucks on a Bushmaster, Del Ton or DPMS, go for it. They'll probably be fine for your needs. I just see NO REASON to buy commercial grade rifles when you can get a new Colt or BCM for $1,000. My local shop had a new mid length Bushmaster with a MOE hand guard for $1,200, and same for an S&W. The same Colt of BCM, which is of higher quality (that is fact, not opinion) is about $1,100 or less if you buy from the right dealer. I'll work with a S&W, but not when I can get a Colt or BCM for the same price.

    My primary rifle is a 14.5" BCM. It has a Daniel Defense RIS II hand guard. My other primary is a 10.5" LMT. I don't own a Daniel Defense but I've shot them quite a bit. A 10.5" and a 16" mainly that belong to a friend. No difference.

    Seriously, did you read my first reply? I think I answered the question on quality there. I put over 30,000 rounds a year through my AR's. I have a decent idea of what works. BCM's work.

    Look through my pics in the AR photo thread. You'll see what I have, all high end, including a couple SCARs. I have a use for all of them. My 10.5" is a work rifle and home defense. My 14.5" is mostly training and some hunting. My 20" is nostalgic. My 8" PSD in my office rifle. When I finally cave and buy the 9" 300blk, it'll be a hog slayer. My 16" Colt 6720 is also for training and hunting when I'll be walking a great deal. I could go on.

    Here's my BCM with a Daniel Defense hand guard as well as my LMT with a Daniel Defense hand guard. I trust my life to these two rifles. The SCAR H is just because I'm awesome.

    The 14.5" BCM barreled rifle usually sits on a Noveske lower, but I run it on the Colt occasionally as well. Here's a few photos, I'll leave out the SCAR L, LWRC PSD 8", LMT MRP 12" and my semi - 2 round burst - full auto MP5.

    There's somewhere around $10,000 in this first photo alone.





    Colt 6720 and SP1



    Here's one of my two SR15's which I used for training and hunting as well as home defense. These are expensive rifles.

    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Member Array dnilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Did you read the replies
    See the second paragraph of my post above yours. I thought about deleting the post completely, but since some had already referenced it, I decided to just add an additional paragraph. Also, I don't think they're over priced, just that prices have risen. Thanks for the info!
    Pistols: Glock 21SF, Glock 30SF, Colt 1911 GCT (all .45ACP),
    Revolvers: Ruger SP 101 (.357MAG/.38SP), Judge (.410G/.45LC)

    Long guns: Daniel Defense AR-15's (M4V4 and M4V5), Mossberg Shotguns (400 and 500, both 12G), Ruger (.22;LR)

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    Member Array dnilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    The same Colt of BCM, which is of higher quality (that is fact, not opinion) is about $1,100 or less if you buy from the right dealer. I'll work with a S&W, but not when I can get a Colt or BCM for the same price.
    I'm a little confused. When you talk about higher quality rifles, what do you mean? Are you saying that BCM is a higher quality rifle than a DD? Or the other way around? When you mention "commercial grade rifles", are you talking about DD? Also, why WOULDN'T I want a commercial grade rifle if I can afford it. Seems to me it would be the BEST way to go. I would think a commercial grade rifle would be a higher quality piece that would be more reliable. I'm very happy with my S&W, but like I said, I wanted my second AR to be a top notch piece...something I can really count on. Also, I HAVE done my research. That's how I settled on those two rifles and from what everyone has said, it sounds like I chose the right ones.

    When I bought my S&W, I relied on the advice of a few people who SHOULD have known better, but obviously didn't. I'm not saying my S&W isn't great, because it is. But it's not in the same league as DD or BCM. This time I did my own research!
    Pistols: Glock 21SF, Glock 30SF, Colt 1911 GCT (all .45ACP),
    Revolvers: Ruger SP 101 (.357MAG/.38SP), Judge (.410G/.45LC)

    Long guns: Daniel Defense AR-15's (M4V4 and M4V5), Mossberg Shotguns (400 and 500, both 12G), Ruger (.22;LR)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I have more than a few ARs. BUT, each one is configured for a specific need, whether that's a work rifle, home defense, hunting, precision at the local range, 8" through 20", etc.

    The BCM Recce was not designed for the Navy SEALs. The Recce was a Crane build that filled a DMR type role. Many rifles can be referred to as Recce (pronounced Wreckie), though that's not an American thing. The Brits came up with that term, which is short for reconnaissance. Basically a standard M4, possibly a free float rail and a magnified optic.

    Daniel Defense is the only one of the two that provides anything to Special Operations (including the SEALs…). Besides Colt, they and Knight's Armament (front and rear BUIS) are the only M4 manufacturers that has anything in the SOPMOD Block II enhancement kit for Special Operations.

    If the set up is the same, you will not notice a difference between the Daniel Defense and the BCM. They are built to the exact same standard. Both offer standard and cold hammer forged barrels. Same chrome lining. Same finish. There will be no difference in their lowers. Their bolt carrier groups will be the same. I choose BCM (Daniel Defense for my hand guards) because of my history with them and their customer service. Daniel Defense is just as good, I just know the BCM people better. Daniel Defense hammer forges their own barrels. BCM sources them. Neither means the other is better.

    Jon,

    Very well said and I agree with you on your assessments. Both are fine rifles and I would say its the classic 6 to 1 half dozen the other. I tend to gravitate more towards the Daniel Defense side because I have more experience with them. I would not be heartbroken with a BCM by any means though.
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

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    Member Array arkie45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbeardsong View Post


    Daniel Defense is better than milspec. They have Cold Hammer Forged barrels, flared , and QD sling attachment points. I've sold both of those guns at work. The BCM is very nice, and I considered buying that very gun, but I don't see it as any better than the DD.
    +1...that's why I bought my DDM4V3. Plus the torture test videos. I couldn't be happier with mine.
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1337961529.473347.jpg

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    Jon,

    Very well said and I agree with you on your assessments. Both are fine rifles and I would say its the classic 6 to 1 half dozen the other. I tend to gravitate more towards the Daniel Defense side because I have more experience with them. I would not be heartbroken with a BCM by any means though.
    Exactly. Had I bought a Daniel Defense barrel before a BCM, that's likely what I'd be buying still. I prefer Daniel Defense hand guards to all others followed closely by Centurion Arms.

    dnilson, Sorry if that reply was confusing, I have a few things going on around me right now. I have to run to my first grader's graduation, but when I get back I'll clarify.

    A quick summary though, Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT, Centurion Arms, Noveske, FN and maybe a couple others are professional grade rifles and most will likely never notice a difference. Small things are different like Centurion and Noveske use double chrome lining, but as for quality, they're all about equal and are considered professional grade rifles. S&W borders professional grade and commercial grade (not the designated market, just the quality) seeing as they have some rifles that fit both needs, then Bushmaster, DPMS, DelTon, Olympic, etc. are all commercial grade and should not be the first choice for a law enforcement rifle or for home defense. Since prices are so close, there's little reason not to buy a professional grade rifle as it will be more reliable, even if you don't notice the difference.

    More on this when I get back. Hopefully someone else will add to this while I'm gone.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    dnilson what Jon is saying is that DD and BCM are pretty much equal and both are at the top of the food chain (with about 5 other companies up there too). Don't be confused, you are comparing a Ferrari to a Lamborghini. There really is no best answer, just buy what you like the most between the two.

    As far as your M&P goes, it is a very good AR and should not be thought of as junk. They are very good shooters and, if I may continue to use my above analogy, would consider them to be on par with a Porsche.

    When Jon speaks of commercial grade ARs he is speaking or companies like Bushmaster, Rock River, Del ton and a host of others. These companies turn out a less than professional grade product and are geared towards the weekend plinker. Now that's not to say that all of these rifles are junk and that they would break in less than a week. What it means is that due to lower quality material and manufacture techniques they are more LIKELY to fail than a professional grade rifle.

    I would grade AR makers like this:

    Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT, Centurion Arms, Noveske, FN = to a Ferrari

    S&W and Palmetto State Armory = to a Porsche

    Bushmaster, Rock River, Del ton, CMMG and the rest = to a Chevy Camaro or Ford Mustang
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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