I'm using an Eotech 552, which runs on standard AA batteries, which is one of the major reasons I bought it...
I wanted something that I could easily resupply...and the 552 was it...
The auto-shut off feature is nice, and by simply re-adjusting the brightness, you restart that clock...
You can turn it on with one button, but I don't like that I need hands (two fingers) to shut it off...
Overall, I like the 552
Another thing...the XPS2 just looks cool. Here is one on a 9" Blackout. It excels for that application.
The point was what they've seen fail in classes. My comment about them has NOTHING to do with endorsements and everything to do with failure rates. Ask Pat Rogers about advanced classes and he'll say if there are two or three EoTechs, likely one will have issues before the end of day three.
Originally Posted by Skygod
I can't imagine an Aimpoint not bright enough compared to an EoTech. I never use setting 12 and I shoot in south Texas summers and areas covered in snow in the winters. No need for the brightest, ever.
I've seen numerous EoTechs not make it through some abuse that Ampoints seem to take with stride. The EXPS seems considerably better than the 553 though, which is considerably better than other models, so that's changing. I don't go abusing my optics, but I've dropped them or slammed into things accidentally.
I took in a 6" Blackout upper that I had to chase the threads. It has an Aimpoint on it...not sure of the model but its it NV compatible. After playing with it for awhile, I think I like the larger view of the Eotech better. The guy that owns this Aimpoint says that it has been on for over 2 years, so that says quite a bit about battery life.
It would appear that they both do their intended jobs very well. I guess its like a Ford/Chevy thing, its just whatever one is used too.
Well, EOTech has had a rather longstanding extensive Military contract. How come they seem to work just fine in Iraq and Afghanistan for Special Forces, USMC, etc, but they "fail" for Larry Vickers, Pat Rogers & Jason Falla? I guess the EOTech doesn't nearly the abuse in Iraq & Afghanistan that it gets on Gun TV. :confused:
It might have something to do with the fact that L.V. gets paid to endorse and do AimPoint Gun TV Commercials.
AKA... "There Is AimPoint & Then There Is Everything Else." :rofl:
I don't know. I've personally seen many of them fail under circumstances where Aimpoints don't.
And, they do fail in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do a search for EoTech and SCAR and see what comes up. Even Kyle Defoor talks about them failing. At the same time, they use the 553 and now the EXPS-3. Take it up with Larry Vickers if you have an issue with it, but someone that was in his position as a member of SFOD-D, I'll take his word for what he personally saw.
Personally, I have no concern about using one, especially the newer ones and have even mentioned maybe picking one up. But, I know from experience, that mine did not hold up to what my Aimpoint does.
When I go to Lightfighter forum and guys like Rogers, Falla, Kevin Boland and other trainers along with many student AARs (who have NOTHING to gain) talk about the class pausing for a moment due to an EoTech failure, I don't take that as them NOT mentioning the Aimpoint failures, I take it as a higher percentage of EoTech failures.
EoTech won a contract, and that does not necessarily mean it was better. They've come a long way, but they still have issues. There's a PDF floating around somewhere about all the military issued EoTechs that needed serviced due to battery doors. Not a big deal, but many were taken out of service for a time. There's also a lot of knob failures on Aimpoint. Look at the Elcan Specter DR. That thing won the contract and was nowhere near what it is today. It would shift zero when going from 1x to 4x. Look at Arms mounts. Some of those are utter junk, but still won the contract.
I know what I've experienced and what many I know and trust, including those that are issued EoTechs under the SOPMOD program, have experienced. We can look at fact, or what our likelihood of a failure is, but either way they have a more problematic track record than Aimpoint, plain and simple.
The T1 that is on my 10.5" LMT has never been dialed down below 8 except for night vision or night shoots. It stays around 10 or occasionally 11 when it's sunny and back to 8 when stored. I've had that particular one for over 18 months and have never turned it off or changed the battery. The batteries in my EoTech lasted only a month or two and it would automatically shut off after a handful of hours. Might be a small thing to some, but if I need my rifle, I prefer it on.
Originally Posted by HotGuns
I prefer the EoTech window, but prefer the Aimpoint durability. I prefer the 1 MOA dot of the EoTech, but prefer the single dot reticle of the Aimpoint… which EoTech offers as well, I believe. I prefer the mounts for Aimpoint and very much prefer the Aimpoint 3x magnifier. I don't think I'd break an EoTech now, but I see no reason to change. I'm all for whatever someone chooses, I just think people should know the differences.
People may never intentionally throw their optic, but what if you take a spill down some steps or simply drop your rifle? I know an Aimpoint will handle a fall greater than I will. I can't say the same for EoTechs.
Anyone seen the Daniel Defense Torture test with the Aimpoint T1? Barely ever looses zero and still works after all the drops and being run over by a truck on a gravel road. Sure Vickers endorses Aimpoint. But, even before then, that was THE red dot he recommended, for very good reasons.
This is a good video on Aimpoint durability. Then again, it does involve Vickers, so who knows what really happened since he endorses them… ;)
Keep in mind that a number of these scenes had multiple takes with the same rifle and optic.
Apparently, they didn't all work just fine in the sandbox. The following was from 2008:
Originally Posted by QKShooter
The SOPMOD Program Management Office (PMO) is issuing this notice to all potential users of the EOTech SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight, NSN 1240-01-533-0941, also known as the holographic weapon sight.
1. It was recently brought to the attention of the SOPMOD PMO that there exists the possibility that the SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight made by EOTech is susceptible to failure characterized by the sight shutting off in the middle of weapon fire.
2. The failure is caused by faulty battery contacts that were incorporated by EOTech without government concurrence. (See attached image). These faulty battery contacts are susceptible to wear due to shock while the weapon is firing. As a result, the batteries may lose contact, causing the sight to shut off.
3. EOTech has qualified a new supplier of these battery contacts and the SOPMOD PMO is currently validating this new configuration through testing. By mid April 2008, this process should be complete. At that time, SOPMOD will institute a 100 percent replacement of the SU-231/PEQs that have already been fielded. Maintenance Contact Teams will travel to field units to either swap out the sights with replacements or conduct on-site field repairs. As an interim solution, the SOPMOD PMO is currently testing a field replaceable grommet that will mitigate the risk of failure. Pending test results, these grommets will be shipped as part of a field replacement kits to units that have been issued the SU-231/PEQ.
4. The SOPMOD PMO has ordered a halt on any further fielding of this item until sufficient testing has been performed on sights with the incorporated part upgrade. For those field units that have already received the SU-231/PEQ, the SOPMOD PMO strongly recommends not using those sights until they can be replaced or repaired.
Both EOTech and Aimpoint have received numerous contracts to supply sights to the US military. Not sure how "exclusive" these are; defense contracts are commonly written around specific units, so for example, a contract for a "holographic sight" would necessarily be an EOTech, excluding by definition other red dot sights.
I did get a little nervous in my first or second carbine class when some EOTechs went down; one for internal failure, the other for a failed (over-torqued) mount screw. Mine has soldiered on through maybe 5K rounds so far, and living in AZ is as close as I care to get to the Middle East. Just making the points that the EOTechs indeed had some documented field issues, and that both EOTechs and Aimpoints continue to be procured under mil contracts.
I am aware of that but, you will also find this (below) all over the Internet from troops who were there and love the EOTech.
Ok, here's the scenario. Young officer I was talking with today, not familiar with either optic, and wanting to know what to take with him to the big ashtray (Most people calls it the sandbox, I calls it an ashtray mmhmm).
The advice I gave him, was to take the EOTECH. Its what I've always carried over there, and for this reason.
When you have that ridiculous flak on, and that dang helmet with the strap coming across your cheek, you can't really get your weapon into your shoulder right, and there's no chance of a good stock weld. Especially when you are moving and shooting, the ability to look down through the sight, even when you find yourself at an odd angle, and know that the little red dot is where that little green bullet is going to go is priceless. Its always performed, and I've used it out to 300 with good effect. I think the doctrine is a 200 meter limit on this piece of gear. It worked for me a little further.
I never worried about the limit, just mounted it where the handguard used to go before we got the picatinny rails, and that way I could still look through the aperture and through the glass of the eotech to the front sight for distances further, or If the thing had a malfunction. I know a few guys who have had their ACOGS busted up after getting hit with IEDs as well, and then they had no ability to aim in, with incoming fire to repel to boot. I've never seen a broken EOTECH though. I know, I'm sure someone out there has managed to break one (improvise, adapt, and overcome). Anyway, I'd like to hear opposing/supporting viewpoints on this one.
Hey, I'm not the dog in this fight. I'm running an AimPoint on my Galil. :biggrin2:
I would like to try an Eotech XPS. I was actually set on buying an EXPS raised version, but last minute decided I wanted to try an Aimpoint, because like I said, the main reason I wanted to upgrad over my old Eotech was the battery type and life. I would definitely use on Eotech on a defensive rifle without a doubt. It's just hard to compete with Aimpoint battery life.
I usually don't get into pitting the EOTech against the AimPoint and verse visa for the simple reason that they are two entirely different optical devices.
It really truly is Apples to Oranges.
I am sometimes amazed at how many people use the EOTech exactly like it is a an illuminated red dot without taking advantage of the Holographic feature of the EOTech at all.
And if that is the case either through intention or ignorance then absolutely go with an AimPoint.
When I see folks looking through the EOTech like it's a red dot scope (some even with one eye closed) and their focus is at the location of the rifle as VS out on the target I just kinda shake my head.
And worse yet...co-witnessing the EOTech reticule directly ON the front sight is one of the most laughable practices yet. You know not what you do if you are doing that...and then absolutely invest in an AimPoint.
But, it's LATE and "Loose Lips Will Sink My Ship" so....I had better shut-up before I start making enemies of the good folks that have morphed the EOTech Holographic System into an AimPoint aiming system substitute.
I've had both, I prefer the Aimpoint. Better battery life and more robust optic.
It's good it runs on AA batteries as you are going to be needing a bunch of them! :yup:
Originally Posted by DaveJay
We've witnessed two different issues then. I've trained with LAV, MAC and served with a couple others. The Eotech 553 was what was issued and used extensively down range. Other optics with variable power also. Never experienced any problems with that particular model. They def' got banged around more in theater than any 3-5 day course on a flat range shooting at paper or steel. I have seen a 512 model lose the battery head mating piece inside of the battery storage compartment. However, it was discovered only when changing out the batteries. Just drop it back into place in the compartment and it was up and running .
Originally Posted by jonconsiglio
Larry V. was the sole reason S&B developed the "Short Dot" variable power optic. Funny, I've never seen him use one in his classes. Never seen one down range either, but I haven't been everywhere and seen everything.
I'm not disagreeing with your experiences in any way. I'm just stating what I've seen and what others have experienced, whose opinions I trust. As I've stated a few times, the 553 was an improvement to other models with the EXPS being an improvement over that. Battery life isn't an issue to me, I'm just used to the way I do things with Aimpoint. There have even been a few times I've mentioned I'd like an EXPS-3.
Originally Posted by Skygod
With the battery door issues fixed, there certainly less than can go wrong. I still don't believe they're as durable as Aimpoints and I think even EoTech fans can agree with that.
This is the reason I mentioned Defoor earlier. He uses EoTechs and appears to think the issues are blown out of proportion. He's stated numerous times he has no issues pressing a button or changing batteries. I trust his opinion as much as I do the others I mentioned. Same for Kyle Lamb with his EoTechs.
I'm just giving a personal experience and what I've seen. You don't have to agree, just one man's experience here. I'm perfectly content with my Aimpoints, but would be more than content running an EXPS-3, I just don't see a reason too.