pros/cons of Eotech versus Aimpoint - Page 4

pros/cons of Eotech versus Aimpoint

This is a discussion on pros/cons of Eotech versus Aimpoint within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; OK--I bit the bullet----Aimpoint micro T-1, 2 MOA from LaRue's...........

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Thread: pros/cons of Eotech versus Aimpoint

  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    OK--I bit the bullet----Aimpoint micro T-1, 2 MOA from LaRue's........
    atctimmy and sparkykb like this.
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan


  2. #47
    Member Array CDRGlock's Avatar
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    Depending upon which button you use to turn your Eotech on, it will automatically sleep after a predetermined time. It is best to turn it on with the left button which has a much shorter time out than the right button.

    I have a 552, 556 and 512 plus 2 3x magnifier's. All of mine were preowned. No problems with mine except one used one was 7 years old. The reticle was barely visible. I did not pay much for it so I sent it for repair for $79. To me, it was still better than paying retail.n that's just how I am.

    I would love an Aimpoint because of battery life. It can be left always on. However, I like the wider window on an Eotech, hence my adoption of a few.

    Another negative is that the size of the reticle cannot be sized. Only the light intensity can be adjusted.
    NRA, Lifetime Member

  3. #48
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    You might want to take that up with EOTech. The text in Post #39 is directly from the EOTech website.

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkykb View Post
    I think you confused yourself by making it more complicated than it is lol. You aren't seeing a recreated hologram of the target. The only thing "holographic" is reticle itself.

    Oh, and OP....I'd get an Aimpoint micro T-1 2MOA for reasons already covered if it were me, but then again I already have one, and I also have a fried Eotech lol. Battery life, durability, etc make the choice an easy one for me. I love having a small super tough optic that I don't have to worry about turning off or on. If I need to grab a rifle in the middle of the night for whatever reason I'd rather not have to mess with trying to turn on my optic in a rush or under stress....or risk flat out forgetting to turn it on until I've raised my sights and realize my mistake. Another plus for aimpoints is that adjusting the brightness on the fly involves just grabbing the knob and twisting one way or the other till it's where you want it....quick and easy....no button mashing to find the right setting.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    OK--I bit the bullet----Aimpoint micro T-1, 2 MOA from LaRue's........
    Wait till you open the box! Let us know what the current "extras" are... The "Dillo" tool comes in real handy for all sorts of things.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Why do I have an ad in the reply box? I had to go "advanced" so I could post...

    Good choice on the 2 MOA

    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  6. #51
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    Congrats. Great also that you purchased from a trusted site.

    Helpful Link - Presented just as a general FYI for those who may be considering a purchase.

    Copies warning - red dot sights copies - Aimpoint
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  7. #52
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    My choice of LaRue's was from this very thread. DC members to the rescue again I picked the medium height mounts so I can have a partial co-wittness....
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

  8. #53
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Ordered last night--shipped today As a side note, today is the 38th anniversary of my raising my right hand and swearing to defend the Consititution of the United States......so, can I say that this was my anniversary present to myself? Think my wife will buy that line???
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

  9. #54
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    Thumbs up

    As a side note, today is the 38th anniversary
    of my raising my right hand and swearing to defend the Consititution of the United States
    atctimmy likes this.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  10. #55
    Member Array sparkykb's Avatar
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    Chaplain Scott, thanks for your service as well! I think you'll be very happy with your new T-1!

    QKShooter, I bolded the part of the factory description that you may have overlooked.

    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post

    Holography is described scientifically as a wavefront reconstruction process. Unlike a camera which forms and records the two-dimensional image of an object on film, a hologram records and reconstructs the light field propagating from a three-dimensional object to the viewer. A good analogy is the recording and play back of sound. The sound waves (e.g. music) are encoded and recorded on a disk. Upon proper decoding, the original sound waves are reconstructed. With holography, the field is encoded in the form of an interference pattern and recorded as refractive index variations on a clear window. The decoding is achieved by illuminating the hologram with laser light and the light field that was propagating from the object scene to the hologram window is reconstructed. Thus, a viewer cannot tell if the three-dimensional image he sees is "live" or a holographic reconstruction.

    The Holographic sight makes use of the capability of a hologram to construct a three-dimensional image to produce a reticle that is projected out to the target plane. This is achieved by using a large, high quality aberration free lens to project the pattern as illustrated. The reticle image could be of any light pattern, any geometric shape or size, and produced in either 2 dimensional or 3 dimensional form. The holographic reticle is uniformly bright and distortion-free regardless of image size. A parallax free image is created with a large and bright aiming pattern allowing quick target acquisition, particularly in close quarter combat situations. At the same time, the HWS can produce an aim point as small as the human eye can resolve to achieve the highest aiming accuracy possible without magnification.
    The first paragraph is a lot of technical mumbo jumbo to make it all sound cool by going into all the details of what exactly a holograph is. The second paragraph explains that the sight uses holographic technology to project a 3D image of a reticle onto the same plane of your target.....basically it makes it look like the reticle is projected onto your target by tricking the eyes with the hologram.

    The way you worded it implies that everything you see through the glass on an Eotech is a holographic recreation, including the target itself. That is not the case and would be very difficult to achieve, if not impossible. In order for that to even be possible the Eotech would have to be capable of using cameras to record every angle of everything you look at, processing that into a 3D rendering, and then projecting that onto the glass...all in real time. All it is really doing is holographically projecting a pre-rendered image of the reticle onto the glass with a red laser. Hope that makes sense.

  11. #56
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    I'm not doubting what you are saying but, I want to be factually correct. I know somebody that worked for Bushnell (the originator of the Holographic Weapon Sight) AKA The HoloSight....he may possibly still be affiliated with the L3 EOTech folks these days.
    Regardless I'll give them a call early on next week and get the straight story from one of their technical people.

    Shooters that are "near sighted" have told me that when wearing their corrective glasses to correct their "far" vision (while actually shooting/using the EOTech) both the EOTech reticule and their distance corrected vision are both simultaneously in crisp focus which is not the case with any other illuminated red dot/reticule optic including the AimPoint.

    Those who know me know that I am more than willing to "accept defeat" without getting bent out of shape and I have no problem at all admitting it when I am wrong....even though that only ever happens about once in every decade. <~~~

    So...I'll check it out. I want to know for my own self if I am wrong. I don't ever like giving out misinformation.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  12. #57
    New Member Array Ftak's Avatar
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    The eotechs greatest flaw is the location of the on/off switch at the rear of the optic. You have to push both buttons at the same time to turn on & off & often fail to turn them off so the next time you use your weapon the batteries are dead. So carry a lot of extra batteries or use your BUIS often. The new eotechs have the controls on the side so maybe there better. But the performance of the eotech outweighs these flaws. I can't say much about Aimpoint for I just got my first one & have yet to test it out. I got the T-1 with the AD mount & it is very lightweight & I will get back to you on its performance

  13. #58
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    I have the aimpoint comp2 ,i am not afraid to knock my rock river around,and the optic has never failed me.I really wasn't interested in magnification because i put a mil-spec flip up sight behind the aimpoint and left the fixed front sight on.This setup co-witnesses very well and is fast .I didn't like the eotech from the first moment i looked through it ,the choppy retical and the location of the controls were big turn offs for me.The aimpoint can be mounted with the controll knob in any position you like,its tough,the optic covers that come with the sight stay on can be opened quickly and stay out of the way when firing,battery life is stupid great ,i could go on and on.Personal preference will always play a factor and so will application of use .I purchased the aimpoint five years ago and i am still using the same battery it was shipped with.For my money it's aimpoint.
    The easy way is always mined.

  14. #59
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ftak View Post
    The eotechs greatest flaw is the location of the on/off switch at the rear of the optic. You have to push both buttons at the same time to turn on & off & often fail to turn them off so the next time you use your weapon the batteries are dead. So carry a lot of extra batteries or use your BUIS often. The new eotechs have the controls on the side so maybe there better. But the performance of the eotech outweighs these flaws. I can't say much about Aimpoint for I just got my first one & have yet to test it out. I got the T-1 with the AD mount & it is very lightweight & I will get back to you on its performance
    While what you said about turning the Eotech off is true (you have to push both buttons), my 552 turns on with just one button...

    I am very happy with my Eotech...
    VCDL Member
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    I know this is a bit belated, but I thought I'd shed some light on the topic of holographic sights. It seems like a lot of people on the wide world of the internets are a bit confused as to the true differences between a red dot sight and a true holographic. I'm not a pro at all of this, but I have taken a few courses in lens/mirror/optical physics that ahve REALLY shed a lot of light on the topic. I hope it might help.

    Warning, lots of words ahead. I'll try to keep it simple and/or interesting.

    So the simpler one first:
    Red Dot Sights.
    Basically, with a Red Dot Sight you have a lens (usually glass, but some cheap ones are plastic), and a small red laser or LED dot is shined (projected) onto its surface. When you look through the sight, the red laser dot is seen, and usually very clearly. 'Parallax-free' red dot sights are a bit more complex, since they use a lens to'collimate' the light beam, but the concept is the same. Think of collimation of light waves as organizing them so that they are not scattering in all directions. They will all be heading the same direction, right next to each other, making a crisp, non-diffuse dot on the lens.

    Pros: It's dead simple in principle. It's also relatively inexpensive to manufacture, and if it uses an LED, its battery life can be incredibly good, a la Aimpoint. They are also often very visible in terms of brightness and crispness.

    Cons: If you're in the service and cannot afford to give any visual notification of your presence, a RDS might not be the way to go. Unless you use shielding methods, an onlooker might be able to see your red dot on the lens. Not a deal breaker for 99.9% of us, as well as MANY in the service though, so it's usually not to be worried over too much. They also tend to have smaller optics than holo sights. Were they to have larger viewing area, it would be more likely to introduce parallax to the user when aiming with both eyes open. They are also a bit more prone to wash-out of the reticle than holo sights. If it's bright enough outside, the subject area can be sending a lot of photons into the sight that can compete and mix with the dot being projected (photon interference), making it harder to notice. Lastly, and most importantly, red dot sights require you to be good at getting your head/eyes into the exact same location each time, much like normal iron sights on a shotgun. If you rotate the weapon right or left, and you don't follow it accordingly with your head/cheek/etc, it can drastically affect your accuracy. Try this experiment sometime in your local shop. Take a RDS, and pinch it with your fingers, on either side of the scope. Pinch it exactly on the sides of the lens element where the projected dot hits (usually the lens element closest to your eye if it has multiple lenses). Now look through the sight at a fixed point across the room. Line up the red dot with it. Now SLOWLY twist the sight just a little bit to the right or left, while still staring at that same point across the room. The red dot will stay on that point you are staring at, but the sight will be aimed at a different location. This illustrates the point that the red dot does NOT always mean that the bullet will go to that point. To counteract this, many end up putting on iron sights in a co-witness configuration with their RDS, to make sure that they have the weapon pointed where the red dot says it is pointed.


    Now the point of most confusion:
    Holographic sights.
    Holographic sights, like EOTech are not as complex as many think. They don't create some crazy, laser-generated image of the entire viewing area. The shooter sees through the lens just as usual. The differences are under the hood. First, a laser beam is generated inside the unit, not outside. It is reflected to a curved collimation mirror to gather the light, and it eventually projects that onto a lens. That sounds like the RDS, doesn't it? Here is where the water gets deep, so I won't try to get too technical. In essence, the image you see of the reticle is 'virtualized' out into space far in front of you. It's not 'real' in an optical physics sense of the word, but it looks like it. It's a bit like when R2D2 projects the message from Princess Leia onto a coffee table. Sort of. An accurate 'fake' image of the reticle is being holographically projected, and it looks like it is sitting in space far out in front of you. It's not projecting a picture of everything you see through the lens, mind you. Just the reticle. It accomplishes this with the sight's beam splitting mirror, and subsequent convergent and divergent optics. In that process, the visible reticle is 'added' into the image you see, it just acts like it is far out in front of you. I can't get much further into this before a basis in optical physics is needed, but here are a few images that might help to get the idea: hologram-7.gifmakeholo.gif Since the reticle appears to be projected out in front of you (some say around 50-70 meters or so), it acts much the same as if you were to project a laser bem sight onto your target. It's not doing that, but it allows you to move your head and eyes around while remaining on target. Try that RDS experiment with a holographic sight, and you will see the reticle move around as you rotate it right and left. Awesome, isn't it?! You don't have to be squared up perfectly with your sight every time you look through it! Generally, that means that where you see the red dot, it will shoot there. It's incredibly genius. +1 Science!

    Pros: The largest was just illustrated above. The effect is that, when you move the sight independently of your eye location (say, to draw a bead on a target to the side of you very quickly for example), the superimposed reticle will change its location. The reticle will appear to 'move' around in the clear viewing lens, staying on the target. VERY cool stuff if you are in a fast CQB situation. Look through the lens, and wherever you see the reticle, it'll shoot, no matter if you are squared up with your sight or not. Holographic systems are also not 'real' projections, so onlookers won't see the red dot if you're being sneaky. The holographic image is also far less sensitive to being washed out, since it isn't a real projection of light hitting the same optic as ambient light. Strange, but cool. Holo sights also don't need coatings on them like RDS sights do. The lack of coatings allows unadulterated light to enter the lens, making it a more 'natural' image when you are aiming with both eyes open (as you very well should!).

    Cons: Some people complained of polarized glasses cancelling out their reticles. The laser light that is used to create the reticle is indeed polarized, so if your polarized glasses are at an an angle that will reject photons coming at that angle, it will disappear. But this has been fixed for years now. They angle the polarized reticle light so that it is not on a common cancelling angle for sunglasses. Not a big issue anymore. Battery life also is far less than with many modern red dot sights. Lasers require a LOT more juice to run than LEDs. They are also expensive. You're very lucky if you can find a used one under $320 USD online.

    People also complain regarding both sight types over what I call 'preference' issues. Some like a certain shape or brightness of reticle. Some like this button or that switch to turn it on or off. I won't get into those things, as they have already been covered ad nauseum.

    Summary: Both are great. They really are. The holographic sights, in my humble opinion, are the cooler of the two by far, but then again I'm a whore for all things nerdy. Both are very good options, and will serve their owner very well. Try both of them out, and see what you like most. No sight is a 'good' sight if you can't use it properly. Anyway, this post is far too long, especially for my first post here. Hope it helped.

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